PristineSound
Senior Member
Martijn
I'm pretty sure when the fan kicks in on the 8c is inaudible, but out of curiosity, how much harder is it to engineered the 8c to be completely passive cooling, without fans?
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High End Munich 2025 - May 15-18
- Thread starter Martijn Mensink
- Start date
I'm pretty sure when the fan kicks in on the 8c is inaudible, but out of curiosity, how much harder is it to engineered the 8c to be completely passive cooling, without fans?
Western Electric horn system?
Beranek’s Law.The best sounding audio system in Munich is MINE! Because I built it!
Mister.Mole
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I couldn't even stay for a complete song. The presenters logic with mind boggling: Because voices had been so important these speakers are build for voice reproduction so they do this better than anything build today.
Fortunately Kii was next door so I could relax there a bit. I was contemplating telling them that their system cannot reproduce voice as perfect as next door but decided to just listen and enjoy.
Of course. 70 years old and never contradicted!
I liked them because they offered a gigantic scene and they were impressive. The frequency range was also better than I expected and probably tweaked somehow to make it a bit more modern. But the Acappella system was clearly superior. As well as the kii, and a Kroma system. There was also quite a bit of crap.
i would have been in there for sure to listen, I have heard a slightly different version several times stateside.
Michael Chung, the owner of Silbatone built a museum in Seoul Korea that opened last year (over $100M USD. He has a deep and sincere passion about history of audio and sound.
He has been taking the WE speakers to Munich for several years as part of a traveling museum feature.
Seoul welcomes the world’s first audio museum - The Spaces
The Audeum Audio Museum is a temple of sound
thespaces.com
Thank you to the original poster of this thread and all of the attendees who contributed posts to the thread along the way and photos.
I would be interested to know if any of the speaker exhibitors that have well measuring speakers (Spinorama data, scores, whatever) promote that in any way? Handouts, video, presenter remarks?
I’m guessing it is like every other audio show out there, eye candy/fashion show, not too big on the measurements?
I would be interested to know if any of the speaker exhibitors that have well measuring speakers (Spinorama data, scores, whatever) promote that in any way? Handouts, video, presenter remarks?
I’m guessing it is like every other audio show out there, eye candy/fashion show, not too big on the measurements?
@Purité Audio did you end up with Technics line, or other TT manufacturer?In terms of 'beautiful' I'd rather have the Technics SL1500 in white:
I
Added to which, since the medium itself is the limitation here, performance will be close if not identical to those telephone number monstrosities.
OP
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It's quite off-topic here, but I'll answer briefly:
The fan in the 8c is actually very quiet, virtually inaudible in practice. It’s a high-quality, low-noise unit, and you’d really only hear it if you put your ear right next to it.
Importantly, the fan doesn’t run during normal operation. It’s only there as a precaution for when the ambient temperature gets high or the speakers are pushed hard for extended periods.
Even a small amount of active airflow goes a long way in maintaining optimal performance. This is difficult to achieve with passive cooling alone, especially in compact, high-performance designs like the 8c.
Im not sure if it was posted, haven't watched it myself yet, but should be interesting.
It should be but it isn't.
Just the usual stuff - jitter's still a problem, there's unknowns that can't be measured, capacitors have unmeasurable properties that we can hear, blind AB testing isn't valid, electronics can measure good and sound bad, ' to say that something 'measures well' is meaningless etc etc.
Voodoo wins, basically.
, expected something better when saw Fink there, oh well.
One would have hoped wouldn’t one, disappointing.
Keith
Keith
The Accapella Hypersphere is a speaker for rooms bigger than a standard house. A wall mounted bass horn with an intended height of 5 to 7m will also be included.
The crazy amplifiers with more than 1000W sine per side will also be included as well as all room acoustic planning and such stuff. So it is more a complete system not the speakers on its own.
Even if the price was low, I guess there isn't a single guy with an average income who can place such a system in his living room.
I think we should be happy that some people of the audio industry try to push the limits and generate some interest. In other industries these kind of attempts get much more support and acknowledgement like a crazy Bugatti, the fastest computer or a very tall building...
In the end every hifi enthusiast get some benefits from such projects by dragging some people into the hifi hobby.
Your experience is no surprise since there is the psycho acoustic ability to hear through the room/ blend out the room acoustics to some extent by learning the behavior of a room with its reflections and stuff. So you much better hear nuances when you know the room and speaker with its placement well.
If you want to conduct subjective scientific loudspeaker test a (blind) training phase is essential to get more nuanced results.
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I know. The price of the system is probably quite affordable for those that have a place where they can put it.
Audionaut
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Not all Mongolians are rich
As others have mentioned this is a voodoo shill video.
Found the following discussion about room acustics to be much more objective, unfortunately it's in German.
Maybe you can switch on subtitles. Although all participants are industry representatives the influences on sound quality and their respective limitations are shown in general terms. Basic principles of room acoustics (room modes, SBIR, reflections, reverberation) and the compromises inherent in the customer's home, the influence of the loudspeaker (different dispersion principles), limitations of EQ, room correction with target curves and even newer approaches like DiracART and Trinnov Waveforming. While the individual points are dealt with rather briefly due to time constraints, each is treated with equal importance.
However, as an ASR user, you won't miss anything new, apart perhaps from the differing assessment of reflections. While here some are skeptical of overly room-acoustic measures (especially absorption at the first reflection points), the viewpoint is presented that the acoustics are already inherent in the recording and should therefore be removed from the equation during playback (although without "deadening" the room) - which is also my preference.
thewas
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Summary in 10 bullet points with timestamps from the video "Headphone Target Curves by Axel Grell at High End Munich 2025":
- (00:01 – 01:39) – Axel Grell opens the talk by stressing that the goal of audio equipment—including headphones—is to sound like "being there," referencing a BBC quote from 1958. He begins discussing headphone target curves and the history of sound reproduction.
- (01:39 – 04:14) – He covers the origins of headphones, starting from telephone earpieces focused solely on speech intelligibility, which evolved into dynamic headphones like the Beyerdynamic DT48.
- (06:20 – 08:38) – Introduces free-field vs. diffuse-field target curves:
- Free-field assumes direct sound with no reflections.
- Diffuse-field includes room reflections and is closer to real-world environments.
Grell explains that measuring headphones on dummy heads simulates these environments but has limitations.
- (09:26 – 10:44) – Discusses frequency response irregularities caused by the ear’s anatomy (e.g., pinna reflections), especially around 8 kHz, leading to dips or peaks that vary by ear shape.
- (11:27 – 14:52) – Lists perception-altering factors beyond measurements:
- Ear anatomy and personal auditory learning
- Clamp pressure and contact with the ear
- Even color of headphones affects perceived sound
- “Burn-in” is largely psychological, not physical (unlike speakers).
- (16:30 – 17:02) – Emphasizes listening context: Your environment, emotional state, and social influence can change how you perceive sound quality.
- (18:02 – 20:58) – Details the “Diffuse Field Target Curve” based on human perception, not just mic measurement:
- 20 test listeners compare headphone bands vs. flat loudspeakers in a diffused room
- The results are averaged into a perceptual target curve (e.g., used in tuning the Sennheiser HD 600).
- (21:41 – 23:37) – Reviews the Harman Target Curve, introduced by Sean Olive:
- Popular in the headphone world
- Based on listener preference with music
- Grell critiques its subjectivity and evolving versions.
- (26:08 – 30:48) – Discusses acoustic impedance and open vs. closed headphone designs:
- Closed headphones can "detune" hearing perception
- Listening angle (30° vs. 90°) affects perceived high frequencies but is not considered in many target curves.
- (33:34 – 36:00) – Grell concludes that no current target curve fully accounts for individual ear geometries or perception. He announces a new research project with University of Hanover aiming to define measurable parameters—like pinna interaction factor—to create better, more personalized headphone standards.