Bass is still modal in the 100-200+hz region below Schroeder, so having multiple bass sources crossed higher, using shallower slopes, or even blended in tandem has been proposed for use in flattening in room response. Wayne Parham calls it flanking subs since they have to be placed close to the mains. Parham suggests blending in preference over crossing over to increase the number of bass sources in the 50-200hz sub Schroeder modal region.
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high bandwidth subwoofer options
- Thread starter samysound
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Possibly some language barrier here, but not sure I understand what you mean by blending as opposed to crossing over?
Not just you, I didn't understand what Parham meant for a while, too. I think he prefers to use gradual first or second order slope low pass filters on the flanking subwoofers around 100-120hz and set the level empirically via in room measurement. Since he proposed running the mains full range, he calls this "blending". The main thing he looks for when setting levels is reduction of the nulls in the overlapping band.
That said, since the OP's goal is to reduce distortion in this band, rather than smooth it, perhaps crossing over would be preferred to blending. It should still deliver smoothing benefits if the woofers are not collocated.
That said, since the OP's goal is to reduce distortion in this band, rather than smooth it, perhaps crossing over would be preferred to blending. It should still deliver smoothing benefits if the woofers are not collocated.
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Why wouldn't you (or Parham) want to highpass the mains?
His proposition is distributed midbass vs the distributed sub 80hz bass we usually discuss from harmon research.
Not sure I get it. Do you happen to have a reference/link to where he argues for this?
I don't think he has a specific white paper for this idea. Googling is probably the only way to find everything on it. This link is a start https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=75432&&ved=2ahUKEwi7jaiRtYDuAhUHIDQIHaMXDmIQFjACegQIFxAB&usg=AOvVaw0ixsWXRfic4WcA-dC6BkP6
Looks like the link needs moderator approval. You can just Google flanking subs. The basic idea is that wherever the mains have sbir, the flanking sub doesn't because it is offset by a couple feet in each dimension.
Looks like the link needs moderator approval. You can just Google flanking subs. The basic idea is that wherever the mains have sbir, the flanking sub doesn't because it is offset by a couple feet in each dimension.
I would still highpass the mains at least of the very lowest frequencies, so 60-80hz, then you could blend further up in the frequencies with additional subs if needed.
I agree, if you are concerned about bass distortion, that could be one approach. My current personal setup is crossed at 120hz 2nd order for this reason, since the mid woofer is small. This may change depending on the bass capability of he mains. The main point of interest for me is the idea of midbass smoothing via distributed flanking subs playing into the 100-200hz region.
CMB
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I don't know if this is still looked for.
While, I were looking for a sub with DSP & high frequency, I fund this manufacturer in Germany:
Saxx Audio:
https://saxx-audio.de/produkt-kategorie/heimkino/subwoofer/
They state at least 2 sub (DS 120/DS 150) until 270HZ
Black or White gloss available :
While, I were looking for a sub with DSP & high frequency, I fund this manufacturer in Germany:
Saxx Audio:
https://saxx-audio.de/produkt-kategorie/heimkino/subwoofer/
They state at least 2 sub (DS 120/DS 150) until 270HZ
Black or White gloss available :
- Joined
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The Dayton SA1000 Subwoofer Controller has an adjustable lowpass; 30-200. I have not verified 200 gets through. I was aiming for a $1000 budget using this, a Sundown Audio SA12 (4 ohm) and a custom ported enclosure. Plenty of headroom but difficult integration. Even though the controller has a phase adjustment, the sub always seems late.
I see now there are options that have everything in one box including a DSP and phone remote app for that price.
I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
I see now there are options that have everything in one box including a DSP and phone remote app for that price.
I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
But it ends up as a pretty complicated setup then. The flanking subs essentially needs to get signal that is above the main crossover, and the same as the speakers. So I guess you need to connect the flanking subs to the main channels then, and do local lowpass on those subs.
Complexity depends on the implementation. For example, my current multi-way system is fully active and the system I am building has passive mains, but I will still be using a minidsp nanodigi 2x8 to manage all the speakers. This might be more complex than most would like.
However, Parham actually implements his flanking subs passively by simply choosing the right value inductor that gives him his desired low pass. He thinks of it as a "distributed" 0.5 way helper woofer, much like how other tower speakers often implement 0.5 way woofers. The difference is that it's not in the same location as the mains. If going passive, thought will need to be given to level matching. I don't have the knowledge/patience to do it passively, so I will be trying the dsp route.
All-in-all, no doubt, it's complex. Multi-sub is a bit complex already, and this doesn't help - in terms of complexity. I'd say that this is something only an enthusiast or hobbyist would consider, much like multi-subs. Definitely not a lifestyle solution.
However, Parham actually implements his flanking subs passively by simply choosing the right value inductor that gives him his desired low pass. He thinks of it as a "distributed" 0.5 way helper woofer, much like how other tower speakers often implement 0.5 way woofers. The difference is that it's not in the same location as the mains. If going passive, thought will need to be given to level matching. I don't have the knowledge/patience to do it passively, so I will be trying the dsp route.
All-in-all, no doubt, it's complex. Multi-sub is a bit complex already, and this doesn't help - in terms of complexity. I'd say that this is something only an enthusiast or hobbyist would consider, much like multi-subs. Definitely not a lifestyle solution.
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dasdoing
Major Contributor
made a full range meassurement today. same position and setting.
the low range surely is extended by my room, but the high range should be acourate
(forgot, both are meassured at LP)
dasdoing
Major Contributor
about speaker boundary interference. this is the distance of my woofer to the wall
look at my unequed and unsmoothed graph above. if I just turn it around into a normal position I get way deeper dips.
also I am pretty sure that a second sub wont help me further after achieving this
look at my unequed and unsmoothed graph above. if I just turn it around into a normal position I get way deeper dips.
also I am pretty sure that a second sub wont help me further after achieving this
Adding more subs is more for improving response for multiple seats vs. a single listening position.
dasdoing
Major Contributor
true, that makes total sense, else the nearest seat to the single will always have more bass then the others
Tom C
Major Contributor
? Won’t multiple subs potentially help smooth peaks and nulls for a flatter FR at the LP?
You're both sort of saying the same thing. More subs will even out the response at the LP, and the response will also typically be more even over a wider area (multiple positions).
dasdoing
Major Contributor
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