high bandwidth subwoofer options

[samysound]

Hello All
I would like to add stereo subwoofers to my monitors with the flexibility to try high/low pass crossovers maybe up to 200hz. However, I find that almost all available powered subwoofers start rolling off in their upper frequency response about 100hz-200hz or so. Some SVS models advertise linear response to a little over 200hz but I am told by their tech support that they all have a low pass that kicks in ~200hz (even when set to "LFE"). The offerings from Rhythmic appear to be similar in this regard as well. There are a couple pro audio options like the genelec and amphion subwoofer stands but these are both priced very high. Is anyone aware of any other options out there?
thanks!

 

[A800]

DIY?

 

[Chrispy]

This one could be crossed pretty high https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5c4f6c449c59750004980762?_k=f4qmj6

 

[Joecarrow]

I assume that you have seen the Rythmik FM8; it does start to roll off by 200hz, but it does look like intentional behavior and not a mess of cone breakup.

For $2k there are a lot of drivers that would work well as DIY options.

 

[samysound]

Thanks all for your input. I did consider the FM8. the top end roll off is very similar to offerings from SVS. Looks like DIY maybe the only way to go but I lack the skill, tools and time required to build myself.

 

[Joecarrow]

Where are you located? It can be surprisingly affordable to have a cabinet maker build boxes for you if you have plans. There are also flat-pack kits available that glue together saving you from cutting anything. I know DIY isn’t for everyone, but the barrier to entry is lower than it used to be so I like to explain it to make sure folks don’t think it’s harder than it is.

Another option that comes to mind, if your room allows it and you can find a used pair, is the TaCT W210 corner woofers. I have heard these and they can cross over up to over 500hz, but they do need to be placed into room corners and rely on room correction for the final response. I heard them with Room Perfect. They also lack in low end extension, they are much more appropriate for augmenting a main speaker’s limited bass capability than for home theater. I heard a set (actually two sets stacked on top of each other) supporting a pair 150hz front horns loaded with full range drivers. They’re out of production and probably rare and don’t fit all rooms, but.... they will do 25-500hz easily.

 

[FrantzM]

How high do you want to go?
How low?
I know these two, go as high as 300 Hz .. I don't know how low, they go.
Rythmik FM8 ...
Hsu Research MBM-12 MK2 Mid-Bass Module .. I don't know if it is still in their lineup though.

Peace

 

[samysound]

Where are you located? It can be surprisingly affordable to have a cabinet maker build boxes for you if you have plans. There are also flat-pack kits available that glue together saving you from cutting anything. I know DIY isn’t for everyone, but the barrier to entry is lower than it used to be so I like to explain it to make sure folks don’t think it’s harder than it is.

Another option that comes to mind, if your room allows it and you can find a used pair, is the TaCT W210 corner woofers. I have heard these and they can cross over up to over 500hz, but they do need to be placed into room corners and rely on room correction for the final response. I heard them with Room Perfect. They also lack in low end extension, they are much more appropriate for augmenting a main speaker’s limited bass capability than for home theater. I heard a set (actually two sets stacked on top of each other) supporting a pair 150hz front horns loaded with full range drivers. They’re out of production and probably rare and don’t fit all rooms, but.... they will do 25-500hz easily.

Im in the socal area. I could prob find a cabinet maker however not sure how to go about the design/plans. There seem to be fewer options for subwoofer kits as compared to speakers. The kits that come with enclosure drawings are typically cube shaped. It would be easy enough to resize into a taller, higher aspect ratio for dual use as a monitor stand, however CAD skills would be required for enclosure drawings to communicate to the cabinet maker. Ive been browsing kits form madisound and parts express which look nice but I run into the above issues.

This DIY option, for example, has the correct form factor but the enclosure would need to be modified to accommodate a plate amp. Also, there are no measurements available for freq response: https://www.speakerhardware.com/the-duke-32-subwoofer-complete-kit.php

Seems like I need someone to design and build which I could see getting too costly

Thanks!

 

[Joecarrow]

A few replies-

First, it would be best not to use the subwoofer as a monitor stand. They will transmit vibrations to any devices sitting on them and they could either make it hard to see the screen or cause premature failure. Maybe it's fine, but I'd personally just skip that concern.

Second, plate amps may not be the best way to go. They're common on subwoofer, but if you want to play all the way into the midrange with the woofer module then the amp in a plat amp may or may not be the quality you would want. A rack mount pro amp like a Crown, Behringer, QSC, etc would be a more popular way to go.

Third, if you want to play high then you want to avoid a cabinet with internal dimensions that are too large. Two cubes stacked on top of one another would be superior to a rectangle twice as tall.

Four pieces of this flat-pack kit would let you stack two 10" subwoofers on top of one another, left and right: https://www.parts-express.com/denov...-for-dayton-audio-10-reference-seri--300-7076

This is one woofer that could be used, it seems to have clean output to well over 500hz: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss265ho-44-10-reference-ho-dvc-subwoofer--295-463

It would require equalization to play as low as you would want for a subwoofer, but the driver is more than capable of taking the extra power to do this. You would want a MiniDSP 2x4HD to carry out a linkwitz transform and any parametric equalization, and so when you also consider the cost of the amplifier you might be at ~$1500 for the four subwoofers before paying somebody to assemble the boxes and make them look nice.

I presently use a Dayton Reference 12" driver in a sealed box, and it is able to play well over 200hz without problems. I don't let it play that high because I only have one and I am able to easily locate it when high frequency content is played (it is centered in the room), but it gives me some confidence in making the recommendation to use the smaller Dayton Reference subwoofers for this application.

Depending on your output requirements, I would also suggest that merely a pair of the sealed 12's would be fine. This would cut the cost further, but it sounds like you do want something with some vertical height to it.

 

[samysound]

A few replies-

First, it would be best not to use the subwoofer as a monitor stand. They will transmit vibrations to any devices sitting on them and they could either make it hard to see the screen or cause premature failure. Maybe it's fine, but I'd personally just skip that concern.

Second, plate amps may not be the best way to go. They're common on subwoofer, but if you want to play all the way into the midrange with the woofer module then the amp in a plat amp may or may not be the quality you would want. A rack mount pro amp like a Crown, Behringer, QSC, etc would be a more popular way to go.

Third, if you want to play high then you want to avoid a cabinet with internal dimensions that are too large. Two cubes stacked on top of one another would be superior to a rectangle twice as tall.

Four pieces of this flat-pack kit would let you stack two 10" subwoofers on top of one another, left and right: https://www.parts-express.com/denov...-for-dayton-audio-10-reference-seri--300-7076

This is one woofer that could be used, it seems to have clean output to well over 500hz: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss265ho-44-10-reference-ho-dvc-subwoofer--295-463

It would require equalization to play as low as you would want for a subwoofer, but the driver is more than capable of taking the extra power to do this. You would want a MiniDSP 2x4HD to carry out a linkwitz transform and any parametric equalization, and so when you also consider the cost of the amplifier you might be at ~$1500 for the four subwoofers before paying somebody to assemble the boxes and make them look nice.

I presently use a Dayton Reference 12" driver in a sealed box, and it is able to play well over 200hz without problems. I don't let it play that high because I only have one and I am able to easily locate it when high frequency content is played (it is centered in the room), but it gives me some confidence in making the recommendation to use the smaller Dayton Reference subwoofers for this application.

Depending on your output requirements, I would also suggest that merely a pair of the sealed 12's would be fine. This would cut the cost further, but it sounds like you do want something with some vertical height to it.

Hi, thanks this is helpful and Ill explore a little further. Also, by monitors I meant my "bookshelf" speakers so the vertical height is more so to get the speakers at ear level.

 

[Duke]

Hi, thanks this is helpful and Ill explore a little further. Also, by monitors I meant my "bookshelf" speakers so the vertical height is more so to get the speakers at ear level.

If you decide to use subs as speaker stands, I strongly recommend installing spikes on the subs to replace the feet. Spikes which make good contact with the floor itself will prevent micro-rocking, which can degrade imaging.

This DIY option, for example, has the correct form factor but the enclosure would need to be modified to accommodate a plate amp. Also, there are no measurements available for freq response: https://www.speakerhardware.com/the-duke-32-subwoofer-complete-kit.php

The 32" tall kit (with the right woofer) models -3 dB at 23 Hz with both ports open and without reinforcement from side or rear walls, and -3 dB at 16 Hz with one port plugged and modest boundary reinforcement.

But no, I don't have actual measurements.

 

[morpheusX]

Outside of DIY with a high-end driver (B&C, BMS, etc), the best comercial option is probably the PSA subwoofers using high-end B&C Neo drivers, especially the ones using the B&C IPAL drivers:
- PSA S18

 

[Matt0305]

The HSU ULS-15 specifically has a MBM mode and a defeatable crossover. They claim it can play up to 200 hz.
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15mk2.html

 

[HooStat]

It sure looks to me that the FM8 has good output past 200 Hz -- I am considering getting 2 of these. I have to admit I can't figure out the y-axis though.

L12:

FM8:

 

[Pdxwayne]

This one claims to have ±3 dB 17Hz – 250Hz.

https://www.paradigm.com/en/sealed/seismic-110

I have one. When doing sub auto room setup using Paradigm ARC Genesis a while back, I believe I saw good response much higher than 250 Hz.

 

[samysound]

If you decide to use subs as speaker stands, I strongly recommend installing spikes on the subs to replace the feet. Spikes which make good contact with the floor itself will prevent micro-rocking, which can degrade imaging.



The 32" tall kit (with the right woofer) models -3 dB at 23 Hz with both ports open and without reinforcement from side or rear walls, and -3 dB at 16 Hz with one port plugged and modest boundary reinforcement.

But no, I don't have actual measurements.

Thanks Duke. Im considering this kit as well

 

[samysound]

It sure looks to me that the FM8 has good output past 200 Hz -- I am considering getting 2 of these. I have to admit I can't figure out the y-axis though.

L12:

View attachment 90106
FM8:
View attachment 90107

The svs sb-2000 as well:

 

[HooStat]

Ah, yes. You did say SVS sb2000 and not L12. It does look like a good option -- thanks.

 

[samysound]

Does anyone have experience with this CSS SDX10 woofer? Looks like it works in a reasonably sized (1ft^3 sealed enclosure and the driver looks like it has good high freq extension. Would the freq response above ~200hz change when in a sealed volume (i.e. roll off significantly like we see for most commercial powered subwoofers)?

https://www.css-audio.com/online-store/SDX10-and-Sealed-Flat-Pack-Kit-p112666934

 

[highender]

Aperion:
https://www.aperionaudio.com/collections/subwoofers