HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

[Chagall]

This looks like an additive PEQ

How much headroom do you use in Roon?

Well, the highest peak is around 6dB. So 6dB or less if he uses volume normalization in roon.

 

[majingotan]

and boring sound - your exciting sound vs our boring sound will sound the same when you close your eyes, and level match

Agreed! I myself and most people would fail ABX my 5% THD SET amp to my Schiit Midgard (118 dB THD+N) on a DBT level match to 0.01dB test when it comes to A/Bing a linear impedance headphone such as the Susvara since the FR is exactly the same (damping factor is more than 10:1 on both amps). 5% THD may sound like Huuuuge distortion on paper but it’s incredibly nuanced in reality. I’d say with linear impedance headphone, it’s the visual perception of glowing tubes that contributes to the experience rather than its distortion sound effect box. But if I use something like Focal Utopia, it’s going to sound different with a SET amp against a SOTA amp due to non linear impedance/frequency curve where damping factor changes drastically when plotted against the frequency and therefore I’ll likely to pass the DBT ABX level matched test.

 

[majingotan]

I then put back on my trusty HD600 one day and couldn’t believe what I heard. I started doing some quick a/b listening between the two and quickly realised that I had upgraded the bass and subbass qualities of the 600 via the Susvara..but at the expense of the mids and treble. This felt so counter intuitive that I started questioning my senses. Slept on it, did the same experiment the day after and ended up with an even greater appreciation of the 600…and genuinely disappointed with the Hifiman.
This lead me to a/b the Sus with my Sundara and HE500 and curiously enough I ended up prefering both.

Have you tried the JAR600? It fixes the shortcomings of HD600 but without altering its midrange tonality as much

 

[ivanobe]

Seeing how crazy wrong it is to say another audiophile doesn't listen to music, we know how much you value reality.

Saying you can't recommend the Susvara, not linked to real world.
Unplug your machines and listen music.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Saying you can't recommend the Susvara, not linked to real world.
Unplug your machines and listen music.

Somehow you think performing a measurement precludes us from listening to music. I can assure you that we listen to quite a lot of music here.

If you are just going to sling insults because of a negative review, why don’t you go read the 50% of the audio press who never give negative reviews at all (but I personally don’t get much value from that).

 

[IAtaman]

The system's excess phase is close to 0 per frequency. You can find excess phase measurements of few headphones, it's usually flat or close to flat. (Oratory have some) The headphones as an isolated system is linear. As long as both headphones have the same leakage tolerance, if you EQ them to the same target next to the eardrum of one individual, they'll sound same.(ignoring distortion here).

leakage tolerance is how FR of headphones change when their air seal is broken. In this case EQ setup I described above, only leakage tolerance between headphones can make a difference.

In one of the Harman papers it say something like the effect of the excess phase of the headphone response is small. When they say that, they surely mean on spectral balance correct?

How about lack of frequency dependent directivity you get with speakers and natural sound? I read this Lindau study Harman papers reference (can not say I fully understand it), which was talking about binaural recordings but I am not sure if I understood its relevance. You seem knowledgeable, could you maybe provide some pointers?

 

[Chagall]

Agreed! I myself and most people would fail ABX my 5% THD SET amp to my Schiit Midgard (118 dB THD+N) on a DBT level match to 0.01dB test when it comes to A/Bing a linear impedance headphone such as the Susvara since the FR is exactly the same (damping factor is more than 10:1 on both amps). 5% THD may sound like Huuuuge distortion on paper but it’s incredibly nuanced in reality. I’d say with linear impedance headphone, it’s the visual perception of glowing tubes that contributes to the experience rather than its distortion sound effect box. But if I use something like Focal Utopia, it’s going to sound different with a SET amp against a SOTA amp due to non linear impedance/frequency curve where damping factor changes drastically when plotted against the frequency and therefore I’ll likely to pass the DBT ABX level matched test.

I am perfectly willing to accept that in some cases differences can be detected and that even the chase (tube rolling or amp matching) is fun for people - not to mention the result can be better sound.

It's just not from me. So I'd rather save time, money, and the headache and lose that potential last xy% better sound.

 

[asrUser]

Somehow you think performing a measurement precludes us from listening to music. I can assure you that we listen to quite a lot of music here.

If you are just going to sling insults because of a negative review, why don’t you go read the 50% of the audio press who never give negative reviews at all (but I personally don’t get much value from that).

I think amirm and many others are way too fixated on measurements. Measurements horrible? Then of course he will subconsciously enjoy it less.

 

[SteveL]

I don't need measurements to tell me that, for instance, Grado headphones sound like crap. What the measurements tell me is why, and more importantly how to equalize them so they actually sound tolerable.

 

[Somafunk]

I don't need measurements to tell me that, for instance, Grado headphones sound like crap.

I was sooooo disappointed when I bought my Grado SR80’s back in 2008 ish, after reading so many good reviews and seeing them smothered with awards from the hifi press I expected a sonic masterpiece but all I received was a shrill banshee wailing in my ears - how the hell could anyone call these excellent?, my sennheiser HD25’s (primarily a dj headphone) were vastly superior to the plastic fantastic shite that was an SR80.

 

[Mr Swing King]

Have you tried the JAR600? It fixes the shortcomings of HD600 but without altering its midrange tonality as much

No I haven’t tried it yet. I haven’t come across any credible frequency response of it and my rule is: no frequency response no new headphone.
I did catch one from superbestaudiofriends, but it just looks like they turned a 600 into a 650…and I am currently trying to sell off my 650. I just prefer the 600 or 580 Precision. If I want something with a tad more bass/subbass, I reach for my 58X.

 

[muza_1]

you must be kidding...
this forum must be something like the Truman Show, you really can't be people listening to music

Music? What is this music you speak of?

 

[Soria Moria]

Is there any other headphone to be reviewed that would generate as much controversy as this?

 

[majingotan]

Is there any other headphone to be reviewed that would generate as much controversy as this?

Sennheiser HE-1 with all the tube sound injected into it

 

[TurtlePaul]

I think amirm and many others are way too fixated on measurements. Measurements horrible? Then of course he will subconsciously enjoy it less.

After owning a half dozen pairs of speakers, a dozen headphones and using a measurement mic and room EQ, I have learned that frequency response correlates massively with what I hear.

 

[Ken1951]

Is there any other headphone to be reviewed that would generate as much controversy as this?

High price + HEA press/reviewers unabashed praise = screaming for anything but equally high praise.

 

[Mr Swing King]

Is there any other headphone to be reviewed that would generate as much controversy as this?

I’m not sure whether or not ASR can generate as much controversy with other future reviews, but there are plenty of bad flagships out there.
Off the top of my head:
Grado GS3000
T+A Solitaire P
Beyerdynamic T1 3rd Gen (although I have a soft spot for this much maligned Nighthawk in drag)
ZMF Atrium (HD650 with a piercing treble peak anyone?)

 

[asrUser]

Is there any other headphone to be reviewed that would generate as much controversy as this?

Maybe the ZMF Caldera review? It even pulled Zach into discussions. I guess Hifiman is too big so Fang Bian won't come over here.

 

[majingotan]

ZMF Atrium (HD650 with a piercing treble peak anyone?)

I'll measure well past 100 Hz except for bass given that it's dynamic driver. Zach probably won't sent any headphones to him since I think he believes that the panther scoring on his headphones is determined by the headphone pads that his headphones are currently equipped. Caldera pads would probably score higher than stock pads on the panther scale from how I perceived it as closer to HD600 than HD650 (more linear than V-shape). Unless somebody sends an Atrium with stock pads to Amir, you won't see it being measured here

 

[Mr Swing King]

I'll measure well past 100 Hz except for bass given that it's dynamic driver. Zach probably won't sent any headphones to him since I think he believes that the panther scoring on his headphones is determined by the headphone pads that his headphones are currently equipped. Caldera pads would probably score higher than stock pads on the panther scale from how I perceived it as closer to HD600 than HD650 (more linear than V-shape). Unless somebody sends an Atrium with stock pads to Amir, you won't see it being measured here

I have seen that thread. I was curious how the Caldera would measure like over a proper rig as many frequency responses I have seen over the net almost portrays it as having near-mint eargain, which totally went against what I heard when demoing it. To me it sounded like a more polite Edition XS.

Anyhoo I perfectly understand Zach not wanting to send over his headphones as he obviously focuses on other aspects to sound quality than the Harman Target.
Maybe we’ll get lucky with an openminded member