HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

[Thl]

What kind of music do you listen to?

jazz, classic, progrock, acoustic music, classic rock, i would say anything but Metal

 

[Thl]

.... we know how much you value reality.

i don't think so, how can you measure it in a deterministic way?

 

[Sokel]

jazz, classic, progrock, acoustic music, classic rock, i would say anything but Metal

Since you listen to classical too you will certainly know that we that listen almost exclusively to this genre we not only listen,we pray to it.
Generalizing is never a good idea.

 

[Jeromeof]

You did indeed, and you were right.

I still think however it is a good idea to show that different tunings might be as valid as well to bring more people around the science instead of insisting on one truth at the risk of alienating people. I am not sure what would be a good way of doing that though.

I would agree - I think people into headphones and IEM's want to have a collection and they don't want them all sounding the same and there are alternative balanced tuning's would be excellent for your 'second' headphone. I am pretty sure the reason these high end headphones are popular is because they are 'different' and just showing only one 'correct' tuning is sort of ignoring the research.

I am not suggesting a wide preference band (like the headphones.com guys are now showing as that can lead inconsistent FR ) but maybe showing 2 alternative balanced tunings. I know with my small IEM collection, I have 3 favourites all with slightly different FR's one very Harman, one slightly V-Shaped and one mid 'forward'.

 

[Chagall]

We are the plebeians that cannot appreciate the sound. Real HARDCORE audiophiles have sophisticated taste that is unobtainable for us mortals.


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What about this gem:

They feel comfort in measurement because they don’t have to go out their way to try and listen for themselves. No effort, no expense, just graph reading… and a boring sound as a result…

No effort? - tell that to people measuring and giving you (whoever you are) knowledge for free
No expense? - all you need is a couple of cheap mics...no biggie and for the rest of us we are on the bartering system, so yeah no expense
and boring sound - your exciting sound vs our boring sound will sound the same when you close your eyes, and level match

Always been a fan of fanbases, tribalism, and us vs them...

 

[Chagall]

Thanks for pointing out,
I still remember something from my PhD in Physics about measurements

Should we bow?

 

[amirm]

But, after 45 years in the hobby, I thought that also my years should be trustable

Well, it isn't. Research shows in controlled testing, you all do very poorly:

Above says how reliable your assessments would be in controlled test of speakers. As you see, you cohorts who are reviewers or sell audio gear did very poorly. You don't become a doctor by being a patient for 45 years. Same here. I have a video on above if you don't have access to actual research:

P.S. I have been in the hobby longer than you. So if that is what matters, I suggest following my lead.

 

[amirm]

94 dB a medium level? Come on...

Another topic that is worth learning about:

 

[amirm]

i don't think so, how can you measure it in a deterministic way?

You can compare my measurements with others and find very high correlation. Seeing how we all work independently, that should give you very high confidence in measurements being repeatable.

 

[OnLyTNT]

We are the plebeians that cannot appreciate the sound. Real HARDCORE audiophiles have sophisticated taste that is unobtainable for us mortals.


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Sophisticated taste = random filters applied to the sound

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Sophisticated taste = random filters applied to the sound

Yes good point.
A lot of the times audiophillia is about what is the strangest and wonkiest sound.

But then there is whole philosophy applied to it.
It's my taste, I'm more connected to the music I can feel the intention of artist music flows through my veins and my soul and other esoteric babbling

ps. it is not to Susvara per se, just a general observation.

 

[ivanobe]

I wonder how many new accounts will be created and people discuss endlessly without any evidence and data that this just cannot be true and that these measurements show nothing and they trust their ears etc.

Oh hell yeah!

 

[ivanobe]

Another sour grape measurement.

 

[Endibol]

Good for you, that means your ears/brain is the limit and be glad that your audio hobby is cheap.
Then hifi is nothing for you, nothing wrong with that too.

Me personally I can hear alot differences in detail, transparancy, soundstage height, width and depth when going from 20$ iem's to a Susvara, even going from the Edition XS to a susvara the difference is big. There are alot of things that change in the perception of sound, the instrument seperation for example, texture of a instrument like guitar, drum, and layering in between instruments.

Wow, could you do the same in a double-blind test?

 

[the_brunx]

 

[Fidji]

Wow, could you do the same in a double-blind test?

Well, I am pretty sure everybody is able to differentiate Susvaras from IEM's. Even without listening to them. You know, it just feels different IEM;s and over ear headphones ;-).

 

[miero]

Alternative measurements from https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/hifiman-susvara.php

Image source:
- https://reference-audio-analyzer.pr...p=-2&cl0=#094A78&stand0=HDM-X&sm0=1#gsc.tab=0

 

[Mr Swing King]

I’ve been using this site for a couple of years as I dig my frequency responses raw…and I really like the more scientific approach to audio (even if I lean more towards IEF neutral than Harman).

Back when I first bought the Susvara I honestly liked it very much. It was all I listened to for a couple of weeks. A true honeymoon.
I then put back on my trusty HD600 one day and couldn’t believe what I heard. I started doing some quick a/b listening between the two and quickly realised that I had upgraded the bass and subbass qualities of the 600 via the Susvara..but at the expense of the mids and treble. This felt so counter intuitive that I started questioning my senses. Slept on it, did the same experiment the day after and ended up with an even greater appreciation of the 600…and genuinely disappointed with the Hifiman.
This lead me to a/b the Sus with my Sundara and HE500 and curiously enough I ended up prefering both.

Now try explaining this to anyone over say Head-Fi or anyone enamoured with the more…errr…elusive and nonsensical parts of audio. They’ll quickly throw you in the pillory and fetch their rotten tomatoes. Tastes are ok as long as they don’t interfere with flagships and holy cows.

Anyhoo, after reading most of this thread I realised that I’m not alone and that common sense does exist in a few dusty corners of the hobby. Made me smile and consequently sign up.
Thanks for the review Amir, much appreciated.

 

[jody2k]

I’ve been using this site for a couple of years as I dig my frequency responses raw…and I really like the more scientific approach to audio (even if I lean more towards IEF neutral than Harman).

Back when I first bought the Susvara I honestly liked it very much. It was all I listened to for a couple of weeks. A true honeymoon.
I then put back on my trusty HD600 one day and couldn’t believe what I heard. I started doing some quick a/b listening between the two and quickly realised that I had upgraded the bass and subbass qualities of the 600 via the Susvara..but at the expense of the mids and treble. This felt so counter intuitive that I started questioning my senses. Slept on it, did the same experiment the day after and ended up with an even greater appreciation of the 600…and genuinely disappointed with the Hifiman.
This lead me to a/b the Sus with my Sundara and HE500 and curiously enough I ended up prefering both.

Now try explaining this to anyone over say Head-Fi or anyone enamoured with the more…errr…elusive and nonsensical parts of audio. They’ll quickly throw you in the pillory and fetch their rotten tomatoes. Tastes are ok as long as they don’t interfere with flagships and holy cows.

Anyhoo, after reading most of this thread I realised that I’m not alone and that common sense does exist in a few dusty corners of the hobby. Made me smile and consequently sign up.
Thanks for the review Amir, much appreciated.

First fase is always the honeymoon fase, you loved the Susvara. Then following by the harder fase of "is my invested money worth the price fase". I get it for the full price of 6000 bucks I wouldn't bought it either, especially if you don't have a decent speaker/headphone amp laying around. Sounds more like your Susvara wasn't matched well with a decent amp (like most people have if you read 1500 pages of head-fi they almost speak about amp issues with this headphone). The HD600 has still one of the best mids agreed for (for it's pricepoint). but I also disagree a bit here, the susvara can do it better it has magical mids but only with a good matched amp like a flux FA10 for example. If you combine a sterile and cold sounding topping A90 for example with a Susvara you won't have the same magic in the mid range, neither the synergy in the bass range. My appologies for sounding like a lunatic, for most here

 

[usern]

You realize that practicing "amp matching" in order to get rid of boring sound is not all that different from EQing closer to Harman target?