Hifiman Sundara with EF400

[Audionewb]

Hey guys I’m not the biggest in the way of knowledge and terminology so bear with me, and any help is welcome.

I started into Hifiman with the Sundara and a Fiio K5 Pro. I immediately fell in love even though I came from HD600s with an internal card. I felt the 600’s didn’t have the bass I wanted even with a bit of EQ, and everyone tells me this is usual of them and the 660’s or 6xx are quite better in this regard.

Well, I read a lot of reviews and bought the Sundaras. Something about the fullness of the sound really made me prefer them! I guess I’m a heretic if I say that…

I use them for gaming immersive world games like Obduction, as well as FPS.

For music it was amazing as well, I listen to plenty of EDM and house music, so the highs and treble were noticed and welcome.

I could hear individual bass and treble sounds I must have missed with the 600s, and it just seemed the soundstage was wider. Whats amazing is I didn’t lose the individual instruments or edits in EDM... The HD600s didn’t seem to like the Fiio so it may have been a bad match? I would hate to compare when they may have performed better on the EF400 (I gifted them and the card to a buddy). Idk, but I felt improvement on what individual sounds I could differentiate with my Sundaras, which seems to contradict the usual dynamic vs planar theory.

Well, the Sundaras are harder to power than the 600’s, so I figured since I liked planar I would buy the ef400 and have power to upgrade cans later. It was open box with warranty for 450, I took the gamble. My Sundaras could not have loved it more!

The treble is much more pronounced, but I did had to EQ the crap out of the bass to get it where I liked. Minimal distortion happens when I crank it loud, which sometimes I just need to really hear something shout at me haha! I am in zero need of balanced cables as unbalanced I had to nerf Windows output to 75% in case my 4 year old decides to crank it while I’m distracted (not that he would, but he is 4… Parents know exactly what I mean lol).

Overall both have been great cans! I do prefer my Sundaras and plan on saving for a very long time to invest in some Audeze LCD 3’s or 4’s…

Thanks y’all!

 

[JRS]

After decades of not paying much attention to HP's, I bought the Sundara's and a very modest Topping DX3 Pro+. My only regret and a minor one at that was pulling the trigger before they dropped to 300 USD. Still, a very nice combo for $700. They do need juice and the DX3 provides. The only aspect that I don't care for was some sibilance that was way overbaked. Here I found the EQ's listed in the Sundara review thread--in fact there are 3 different sets of filters for EQ, and they all go a long ways to the next step IMHO (again I am no real judge of cans). So you might want to go to that thread if you haven't already. Not sure what SW you're using for the EQ, but one or two of them are already in txt format to paste into APO EQ. Otherwise there's a bit of typing.

As to resolving power, not sure what the typical planar vs dynamic theory is. AFAIK for the 50 years I have been into audio, planars have been considered the way to go for ultimate resolution--tradeoff's being demanding and amplifier sensitive. The best of both are so good I dont know that any generalizations can be made--to me it's like comparing a RAAL ribbon tweeter to a Be tweeter. Or really, really good electrostatics (Sanders, Sound Lab, JansZen, ML) vs top of the line dynamic speakers. For me there has always been a seductive quality to planars that is hard to beat.

Anyway, welcome to ASR where science and measuresment are given sufficient respect.

 

[Audionewb]

After decades of not paying much attention to HP's, I bought the Sundara's and a very modest Topping DX3 Pro+. My only regret and a minor one at that was pulling the trigger before they dropped to 300 USD. Still, a very nice combo for $700. They do need juice and the DX3 provides. The only aspect that I don't care for was some sibilance that was way overbaked. Here I found the EQ's listed in the Sundara review thread--in fact there are 3 different sets of filters for EQ, and they all go a long ways to the next step IMHO (again I am no real judge of cans). So you might want to go to that thread if you haven't already. Not sure what SW you're using for the EQ, but one or two of them are already in txt format to paste into APO EQ. Otherwise there's a bit of typing.

As to resolving power, not sure what the typical planar vs dynamic theory is. AFAIK for the 50 years I have been into audio, planars have been considered the way to go for ultimate resolution--tradeoff's being demanding and amplifier sensitive. The best of both are so good I dont know that any generalizations can be made--to me it's like comparing a RAAL ribbon tweeter to a Be tweeter. Or really, really good electrostatics (Sanders, Sound Lab, JansZen, ML) vs top of the line dynamic speakers. For me there has always been a seductive quality to planars that is hard to beat.

Anyway, welcome to ASR where science and measuresment are given sufficient respect.

Thanks I’ll take a look into those EQ’s and see what they do! APO seems pretty popular, I’ve no issue switching over if it means copy and paste lol.

 

[JRS]

Thanks I’ll take a look into those EQ’s and see what they do! APO seems pretty popular, I’ve no issue switching over if it means copy and paste lol.

APO is a WIN program that allows for easy PEQ. If you're not familiar with Parametric EQ, it is definitely the way to go because you can create filters of nearly any shape which allows one to take an arbitrary frequency response and bend it to the desired response. Unlike speakers where we usually shoot for a straight line, headphones need to be shaped in something far different from a flat line in order to make them sound natural.

So download and install APO. Theres a complementary program called Peace which is like an audio control panel that enables you to listen on the fly. Get that too. Otherwise one has to make changes in the filter set and reboot the machine for changes to take effect.

The filters are defined in a text document that defines the center frequency affected, f0, something called the Q of the filter which can go from undamped to overdamped and is reflected by how selective it is regarding the frequencies; affected which might range from
And finally one specifies the amount of cut or boost. There are also low pass, high pass, and shelf filters. Here is a good discussion of some of the issues around EQing HP's and a description of the filters. :for example a large qmightveffect a 1/4 octave and a low might span four octaves. https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

 

[Audionewb]

APO is a WIN program that allows for easy PEQ. If you're not familiar with Parametric EQ, it is definitely the way to go because you can create filters of nearly any shape which allows one to take an arbitrary frequency response and bend it to the desired response. Unlike speakers where we usually shoot for a straight line, headphones need to be shaped in something far different from a flat line in order to make them sound natural.

So download and install APO. Theres a complementary program called Peace which is like an audio control panel that enables you to listen on the fly. Get that too. Otherwise one has to make changes in the filter set and reboot the machine for changes to take effect.

The filters are defined in a text document that defines the center frequency affected, f0, something called the Q of the filter which can go from undamped to nominally damped (Butterworth) or overdamped such as a Bessel function. And finally one specifies the amount of cut or boost. There are also low pass, high pass, and shelf filters. Here is a good discussion of some of the issues around EQing HP's and a description of the filters. : https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

You are literally the best! Thanks!

 

[Audionewb]

APO is a WIN program that allows for easy PEQ. If you're not familiar with Parametric EQ, it is definitely the way to go because you can create filters of nearly any shape which allows one to take an arbitrary frequency response and bend it to the desired response. Unlike speakers where we usually shoot for a straight line, headphones need to be shaped in something far different from a flat line in order to make them sound natural.

So download and install APO. Theres a complementary program called Peace which is like an audio control panel that enables you to listen on the fly. Get that too. Otherwise one has to make changes in the filter set and reboot the machine for changes to take effect.

The filters are defined in a text document that defines the center frequency affected, f0, something called the Q of the filter which can go from undamped to overdamped and is reflected by how selective it is regarding the frequencies; affected which might range from
And finally one specifies the amount of cut or boost. There are also low pass, high pass, and shelf filters. Here is a good discussion of some of the issues around EQing HP's and a description of the filters. :for example a large qmightveffect a 1/4 octave and a low might span four octaves. https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

My brother in Christ. WOW! I did all the above and can say I love the difference. It's disgusting how much EQ can help a headphone... WOW!

 

[JRS]

I'm happy it is turning out well. The so-called Harman curve is so oddly shaped that it is difficult to replicate. A recently reviewed IEM the Crinicle Zero is a dynamic wired bud that comes about as close as anything, and serves as a good reference for proper balance. If you have a spare $50, one of the best buys in audio.

https://www.amazon.com/Fanmusic-TRUTHEAR-Crinacle-Earphone-Dynamic/dp/B0B7DS1QHZ

 

[Audionewb]

I'm happy it is turning out well. The so-called Harman curve is so oddly shaped that it is difficult to replicate. A recently reviewed IEM the Crinicle Zero is a dynamic wired bud that comes about as close as anything, and serves as a good reference for proper balance. If you have a spare $50, one of the best buys in audio.

https://www.amazon.com/Fanmusic-TRUTHEAR-Crinacle-Earphone-Dynamic/dp/B0B7DS1QHZ

Personally I hate IEMs and only use my AirPod Pros for work. I’m a strictly over the ear kinda guy, the rest annoy the HELL out of me.

 

[JRS]

Personally I hate IEMs and only use my AirPod Pros for work. I’m a strictly over the ear kinda guy, the rest annoy the HELL out of me.

I understand. I like phones better, but having reference quality anything is useful for purposes of comparison, though there is no rule that one prefer that tonality--its based on the average of a panel of somewhat trained listeners, there were also a fair number of bass heads. Turns out that are external ears are subject to a good deal of variation and so what passes as "flat" for you may be significantly different than flat for me (talking loudspeakers). The headphone response is subject to all that ear variation. Getting IEM's snugged up in your ear canal gets rid of the reflections and resonances there, but still runs into some variation in loading.

Normal middle ear compliance values range from 0.3 to 1.5 millimho

Source: https://www.audiologyonline.com/ask-the-experts/normative-values-for-tympanograms-351
Impedance is a function of eardrum size, shape and stiffness--can be scarred by recurrent ruptures from otitis media, and of the ossicular chain (3 tiny bones that convey the vibrations of the eardrum to the cochlea).