Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)

[odyo]

To all the Sundara lovers. I mean people who have or had them and liked the specific qualities of those.

I’m looking for something able to give the same sensations with more detail, in order of importance:

• Same or better ”effortless delivery” of sound, meaning that what I find special about the Sundara over all the other HPs I’ve tried is that the sound rarely seems to come out of a driver, it seems simply “present in the room”. Except when it clips, of course.

• The perceived detail of this cans is the best I’ve tried, but i know it can be better.

• Same or more spacious soundstage.

• The punch is important, but to a point.

• The less EQ required, the better. I like a bit less bass than the Harman curve suggest and use EQ on the desk, but there I prefer the speakers. Headphones are almost always driven by my iPhone, at home and with the apple dongle since portable amps are useless and impractical for the levels I’m listening to, but if really needed I can use one, either my hipdac, or something else, still, better if it is not needed.

I usually don’t have the means to try before buying, there’s a shop here that has a very limited assortment, and I don’t know of others nearby…
My experience is based on tens, not hundreds , of dynamic drivers HPs and almost no other planar.

Price can be around 1.000 €, a bit more maybe, less if possible, but really I’m not setting a budget, just looking for something that will make me feel again the wonder of the first listening with the Sundara, without reaching top of the line prices like 2K or more.

I also happen to have a small head, for instance the Sundara is set to the minimum excursion and the pads completely overlaps my lower jawbone, I really like the self-adjusting headbands of products like the OLLO’s. Of course this one is the least important factor.

So, Ananda, Arya, HE6, LCD? What have you used, not tried for an hour, than can fit the bill?
Really not interested in opinions made by reading forums and graphs, I’m already doing that by myself

Imo, stealth version of Arya is like Sundara but on a lot of steroids. Strongly recommend.

 

[Music1969]

The later you buy a newer release from Hifiman the more you will find they build those with parts from other returned items.

Damn.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Imo, stealth version of Arya is like Sundara but on a lot of steroids. Strongly recommend.

With Hifiman range, I have noticed that, up to EDXS, there is a decent improvement as you go up the ladder.
But once past EDXS, the improvements slow down!
At CanJam, I compared my own EDXS (fed by my Hugo2) with the entire range that was available. Surely, Sundara sounded good, but EDXS was better. Sundara was better than the ones below it too.
But the difference between my EDXS and anything up to HE1000se was not that much. Ananda and EDXS was a toss-up, HE1000* was better and smoother but not hugely.
Then when I heard the Susvara at dCs room (Hugo2 still managing fine), sure, Susvara was clean and smooth, but not 15 times better!
I think the sweet spot in Hifiman range, is EDXS. Though Sundara and Ananda are very good too, for the asking price.

 

[Paolo]

At CanJam, I compared my own EDXS (fed by my Hugo2) with the entire range that was available. /…/
I think the sweet spot in Hifiman range, is EDXS.

How much of that do you think is confirmation bias? I’m often worried about my bias, it just can’t be that I’m the lucky one that make all the right choices.
To be clear, I’m referring to the Edition XS being the very right sweet spot, not talking about actual diminishing returns, which are a sad and true story.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

How much of that do you think is confirmation bias? I’m often worried about my bias, it just can’t be that I’m the lucky one that make all the right choices.
To be clear, I’m referring to the Edition XS being the very right sweet spot, not talking about actual diminishing returns, which are a sad and true story.

Surely some of it. To be the devil's advocate, there is also another bias!
The fact that I am used to the sound of my headphones, and unconsciously believe it is right and anything else is wrong.
But to add to this, I did fall in love with a pair of Audeze LCD-XC 2021 version (at same venue), and I have ordered a pair now! that goes against the confirmation bias argument, doesn't it?
However, Hifiman headphones past Sundara (I loved mine) have very similar sound signatures, so I did like them all anyways.
EDXS seems to offer the better value among a bunch of headphones by Hifiman that sound alike. If I was to be given for free, a Hifiman headphone, I would go for HE1000se for sound quality and to keep, or a Susvara to sell on eBay and get a HE1000se and pocket the difference!
For the money, EDXS in my opinion is a better value.

 

[odyo]

With Hifiman range, I have noticed that, up to EDXS, there is a decent improvement as you go up the ladder.
But once past EDXS, the improvements slow down!
At CanJam, I compared my own EDXS (fed by my Hugo2) with the entire range that was available. Surely, Sundara sounded good, but EDXS was better. Sundara was better than the ones below it too.
But the difference between my EDXS and anything up to HE1000se was not that much. Ananda and EDXS was a toss-up, HE1000* was better and smoother but not hugely.
Then when I heard the Susvara at dCs room (Hugo2 still managing fine), sure, Susvara was clean and smooth, but not 15 times better!
I think the sweet spot in Hifiman range, is EDXS. Though Sundara and Ananda are very good too, for the asking price.

EDXS is logical sweet spot. It's really a nice headphone. But i don't agree with this statement. I think Arya quite a step up over these in terms of technical performance. EDXS sound nice but it's not great in terms of technical performance. Ananda have impressive traits but it has too much weaknesses and dealbreakers. Arya is another level.
Arya SE is like combination of Sundara, XS and Ananda.
It takes engaging, precise sound of Sundara.
It takes the bass extension of XS.
It takes the presentation and textural/holographic detail of Ananda.
But does it all better.
The only weakness i feel despite having an extreme separation, music elements are too close to each other. Soundstage is squishing things together which preventing things to expand outward. Making it concentrated and overwhelming sounding. Different dac amps may improve it but this is ASR.

 

[Talisman]

I have just arrived the Sundara, found on offer for less than 300 euros on Amazon, listening to them I feel that it is a good sound, but the thing I hear most is that I lack bass, it is like listening to a fantastic pair of bookshelf speakers with 5-inch woofer.
Also I feel like they are feeding a donkey some lasagna, he clearly eats them and likes them but fails to appreciate them well for their value. So the Sundara with me, I hear them sound good, very pleasant, but as I read, and coming from scarce headphones, I would have had to tear my clothes, or hear a huge stage or other things like that, instead you hear yes, the sound extend more than with the IEMs, and I feel I like the way they sound, but the thing that bothered me the most was not hearing full-bodied bass, not excessive, but just fuller and fuller underneath.
Also I am using them with a dap hidizs ap80pro in single ended mode, and to get a good volume I have to keep them at 70-80 on 100, but if I equalize to fill the bass all the overall volume goes down and I have to go from 90 to 100, probably o and things would be much better if you used a cable to use the balanced output which greatly increases the available power.
Now I'm undecided, I have read the review of the AKG K371 which cost half and it seems they already sound great out of the box, I don't know how much or my donkey ears can notice the less precision / detail of the Akg compared to the Sundara, but surely I would hear some good bass without the need to equalize and maybe I could even use them with the smartphone.
Would I lose a lot in terms of the stage?

 

[Bernd]

Hi, I seem to have a similar taste in music as you. I like a decent audible bass/sub bass. I own both the Sundara and the AKG 371 (which I bought to have good lightweight closed headphone for travelling). To suit my liking the AKG needs a little EQ boost in the bass (+ 3 db at 65 Hz) but the Sundara needs a lot more (+ 5.5 at 55 with a gentle slope up to 120 Hz). However with EQ the Sundara easily beats the AKG!

 

[solderdude]

K371 is closed and seal dependent but sensitive and has good bass when you have a good seal.
Mechanically the K371 is a cheap headphone.
The reasons I did not keep it were; seal issues, quality seems low, microphonic cable. sweaty pleather pads that appear to degrade rather sooner than later.
Sound was good-very good though, but comfort, longevity and quality to me is also important.

Sundara is a bass-light headphone that isn't very sensitive.
The reasons I did not keep it is somewhat heavy in weight, bass-light without EQ and the treble peak (which I addressed) and already have too many good open headphones.
With the treble filtered it was a good sounding headphone albeit lacking deep bass (without EQ).

Re: 'stage' see here and thus I can't help you here. Neither were very good at that, when someone held a gun to my head I would pick the Sundara...

 

[Talisman]

Thanks for the feedback, I like the equalized Sundara a lot, but I'm wondering how much better they can be heard than the akg.
The akg have several advantages, they cost half, they can be used without equalization, I don't have to spend another 40 euros for a balanced cable and they can easily be driven by a smartphone, they also have a very low level of distortion even at low frequencies and I like this. .
The Sundara to get what I want I have to spend another 40 euros for the balanced cable and I could only use them with the dap at that point, in short, they have many potential disadvantages, and I'm trying to understand if all these disadvantages are justified by such a musical performance. better to my ears which are definitely not refined.

 

[Bernd]

Yep, there you go .... and your're right.......when it comes to the price performance ratio a new AKG 371 is almost unbeatable (the ONLY drawback is the cable which is a transmits any sound when it rubs against your clothes/pillow/bed cover -- you name it!

HOWEVER --- according to me the DROP/SENNHEISER HD6XX is the real king in that dept. With EQ these cans play in the same league as my ARYAs or my LCD-Xs!!!!!! Not as much sound stage as the ARYAs and as much detail retrieval as the the LCD-Xs but then they cost about a quarter or a fifth as much!!!

I live in Europe, and because of the lousy exchange rate prices have gone up here a lot - but if your from the US you haven't that problem only VAT. If I were you I'd look for a good second hand 6XX (or a HD650S which is indentical for all intents and purposes). Cheaper and almost in the AKG price range is the SENNHEISE HD560S (which checked out: I liked the sound but not the built quality and the head clamping force which gave me headaches - 'though this is almost as true for the 6XX but which has a metal headband structure whcih you can 'work' upon.

 

[Talisman]

For those who don't have PEQ-capable app, and want to use GEQs instead.

Spoiler: 10-band GEQ

Preamp: -7.7db
32 7.2
64 1.0
125 -0.4
250 -0.2
500 -0.1
1000 -0.4
2000 2.5
4000 -0.5
8000 -2.0
16000 -0.1

Finally I received the balanced cable and set these values in my 10 band equalizer of the hidisz ap80 pro. The result is magnificent, truly magnificent.
Maybe at higher volume levels and with heavy bass music I can perceive minimal distortion, but I'm not sure.
The lack of volume due to equalization is well compensated by the increased power of the balanced output.
Now I have the feeling, but I repeat, just a feeling, of being able to recognize good mp3 files at 192 and flac files. But I didn't do a blind test so take them as fictional statements, maybe I'm just focusing more on listening carefully.

 

[Talisman]

Further update.
I am listening to the soundtrack of Blade runner, musical masterpieces by vangelis, with their magical and ethereal atmospheres, and the Sundara make this type of music divinely, while for other genres such as electronic music with not very deep and continuous bass, perhaps a dynamic driver would make it a little bit more.
Side note, in this two days in Europe there is the prime day, and I could not resist the temptation of a magnetoplanar closed for a few pennies.
The monolith monolith m565c, just 121 euros, very curious to hear them

 

[MrBrainwash]

Further update.
I am listening to the soundtrack of Blade runner, musical masterpieces by vangelis, with their magical and ethereal atmospheres, and the Sundara make this type of music divinely, while for other genres such as electronic music with not very deep and continuous bass, perhaps a dynamic driver would make it a little bit more.
Side note, in this two days in Europe there is the prime day, and I could not resist the temptation of a magnetoplanar closed for a few pennies.
The monolith monolith m565c, just 121 euros, very curious to hear them

Properly powered and equalized Sundara have decent bass for an open-back headphones. But I understand that for electronic music someone might want different kind of sound. Stock Sundara sure is not perfect with that in regard.

I have X2HR which have poorer treble, more bass and somewhat similar overall tonality. After EQ bass quality is not that good but it's more puchy and more heavy. Quite nice headphones for electronic music.

 

[blanc]

Hifiman has released a new version called Sundara-C:

https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/sundara-closed-back.html

with impedance = 20Ω and sensitiviey = 98 dB.



Has anyone used it? How would you compare Sundara with Soundmagic HP1000?

 

[Nango]

Checked the monolith m565c?? Worth spending even that little?

 

[Talisman]

Checked the monolith m565c?? Worth spending even that little?

Not yet arrived, the tracking says between 20 and 25 October. as soon as they arrive I will make a comparison and write my impressions with respect to the sundara

 

[Music1969]

I returned HE400se due to channel imbalance - all vocals were shift to right of centre.

I got Sundara and don't have this issue.

Sundara is nice !

I'm comparing oratory's EQ to Harman 2018 vs crinacle's PEQ (via AutoEQ website).

Lower octaves quite different between the 2 despite both being measured by very good GRAS units and same Harman target curve and open back cans

 

[Talisman]

Checked the monolith m565c?? Worth spending even that little?

Here we are! Monolith 565c arrived earlier than expected.
first aesthetic impression BEAUTIFUL, really beautiful, with the wooden cover, the case included and a nice cloth cable (even if a bit microphonic).
Some initial considerations, these are much easier to drive than the Sundara, they can be used peacefully with a normal mp3 or with the smartphone, which is what I hoped for and is the reason why I bought them, plus I hoped that being closed they had a more full-bodied bass without the need to equalize them, and this is partially true, in the sense that the bass are in fact flat, much more placed than the sundaras, but only in the medium bass spectrum, let's say up to 80 / 100hz, below they are deficient as the sundaras and benefit from some db increase
How do they sound?
I state that I certainly do not have golden ears and I do not have the training and refinement of listening to people who work there like Amir, so take these evaluations with a grain of salt.
Compared to the sundaras it seems to me that on the higher frequencies of the voices they are a little below, I found a greater pleasure by pulling up the 4kz by 2db and the 8kz by 3db, but I'm still doing tests.
out of the box they sound good but with a tone a little too warm for my taste.
Once they were equalized by ear to my tastes, I was able to compare them. if monolith sound really good for headphones of that cost, very detailed and clean, the bass even if pulled up, of 4db in the 30hz, I think it does not reach the cleanliness and depth of that of the EQUALIZED sundara, but it is absolutely enjoyable, the mids me really like them very much, the voices come out very well, natural and pleasant, on the higher spectrum the feeling is that the sundara makes the most difference, the highs of the sundara are very precise like scalpels, defined and separated, on the monoliths, probably thanks to the closure rear, they seem a little less clean and precise to me, but they are still absolutely pleasant.
The feeling of "airiness" is all in favor of the sundaras, but I expected it given the different design philosophy.
So for critical and dedicated listening the sundaras are definitely ahead, but for relaxed listening these monoliths are really fantastic at this price point.
What I really like about the monoliths is the fact that they sound incredibly good overall, even without or with minimal equalization and that they don't need a dedicated amplifier or a dap, already with my smartphone I can drive them at dangerous volumes, plus they are beautiful and really well built, live they make a beautiful effect.
So absolutely yes, they are worth the very little money required in my opinion (I paid just 121 euros)

 

[Nango]

Nice pics too!!!! Thanks.