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Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)

AdamG

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I read your review of the Sundara. Glad you gave them a recommendation, they're good cans. However, most of Hifiman's headphones (and planars, generally) need time to burn in and loosen up from fresh out of the box. They recommend 150hrs (Ananda & Arya, can't remember about Sundara) but results can be heard after about ~20-50hrs. Pink noise and brown noise over a few nights works well. It's been my experience that the bass deepens, bass texture increases, treble sharpness and peaks smooth out, and soundstage widens and vocals/instruments becomes more layered. I currently own Ananda, Arya, 400i 2020, t50rp mk3. I used to own Sundara. Burn in has benefitted all of them, t50rp not as much. Would be glad to hear from those who've owned Sundara and Ananda for a few months.
Welcome Aboard @Ezees, and Oh Boy strap in……
 

Ezees

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And what do you think that would change given what Amir's measuring here?
RME amp lacks power for sufficient headroom when EQ'ing. May get loud but will have more distortion. Planars generally need more current vs voltage and some amps lack the ability to deliver enough current (+headroom for musical peaks) under load.
 
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aldarrin

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I have never noticed any change from any burn-in other than my own head / ears.
 

Ezees

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Sad enough the endorsers of Ananda are also "right", despite the review ;-) ....,.
I am an Ananda owner and they are much better than the review that Amir gave, listening vs graphs. From treble through bass they have good balance and detail. Open soundstaging and good instrument separation. I liked them so much I bought the Arya. :)
 

solderdude

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RME amp lacks power for sufficient headroom when EQ'ing. May get loud but will have more distortion. Planars generally need more current vs voltage and some amps lack the ability to deliver enough current (+headroom for musical peaks) under load.

Nonsense. When an amp can provide the required voltage in a load it also can deliver the required current.
Ohm's law also applies to headphones
 

AdamG

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Bad to stir the pot, eh?
Well, not if your open to the real facts and ready to move away from the Marketing lies and deceptions. This is a Science based Forum and our Membership reflects that approach. We measure a products value by how it actually Measures.
 

Ezees

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I have never noticed any change from any burn-in other than my own head / ears.
Have you ever played pink noise on a headphone or speaker overnight over the course of a week to note changes in tone, bass capabilities, soundstage, etc?
 

AdamG

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Have you ever played pink noise on a headphone or speaker overnight over the course of a week to note changes in tone, bass capabilities, soundstage, etc?
This break in fable is mostly propagated by Vendors as a means of causing you to hesitate in returning a product just long enough for the return window to expire.
 

Shazb0t

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This break in fable is mostly propagated by Vendors as a means of causing you to hesitate in returning a product just long enough for the return window to expire.
It's also likely that they are aware of brain burn in. Any new headphone that sounds appreciably different from your current normal usage headphone is going to sound "wrong" to you at first. Even if it's objectively better! Given time your brain adjusts to the newer sound and if you were to then compare it against that same old headphone again your old headphone would sound "wrong" as well. It's hard to objectively tell if a new headphone is better without a longer listening evaluation if you've "burned in" to the tonality of a different headphone. Being able to make initial listening difference observations and then also longer term comparison observations after you've acclimated to the new tonality is a useful tool. The longer you keep your new purchase the better it will sound to you until you're fully brain burned.

This is why it's important to correlate perceived differences with objective measurements. They are the compass to guide you in the right direction.
 
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Ezees

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This break in fable is mostly propagated by Vendors as a means of causing you to hesitate in returning a product just long enough for the return window to expire.
All I know is that every set of planar cans that I've owned (even t50rp) sound different (better) now than when they were fresh out of the box. Mental acclimatization taken into account.
 

Raindog123

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All I know is that every set of planar cans that I've owned (even t50rp) sound different (better) now than when they were fresh out of the box. Mental acclimatization taken into account


And how do you know that? And how do you ‘take mental acclimatization into account’?
 
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solderdude

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Have you ever played pink noise on a headphone or speaker overnight over the course of a week to note changes in tone, bass capabilities, etc?

Yes, twice but not with planars.
 
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Zensō

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All I know is that every set of planar cans that I've owned (even t50rp) sound different (better) now than when they were fresh out of the box. Mental acclimatization taken into account.
This is a burn-in test by Rtings that reached a similar conclusion to an earlier test done by Tyll Hertsens at Innerfidelity (Tyll’s article is no longer online):

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/learn/break-in

From the conclusion:

“No evidence in support of the existence of the break-in effect was found in this test. The changes observed were either too small to be audible, or very large and not repeatable, which suggests fluctuations in system performance or environmental noise. Also, no pattern was observed in any of the changes over time, ruling out a cumulative or long term effect due to burn-in. The music clips recorded as part of the test also sounded nearly identical in a subjective listening evaluation. It is therefore concluded that breaking-in headphones for consumers is not necessary, and won't result in any noticeable change in their sound. The user reports regarding the existence of the break-in phenomena can be explained as a psychoacoustic effect caused by the fact that human hearing is very good at adapting to new sounds. So, a pair of headphones that were perceived as harsh a few weeks ago are now being perceived as more tame and balanced.”
 
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solderdude

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Superlux HD681 EVO measured new, directly out of the box and (without moving it from the test fixture) measured after blasting very loud and bassy music for 8 hours straight.
evo-5hrs-break-in.png


Do note that the room temperature also did rise substantially during that day.

The changes are too small to be detected, certainly when you have 1 or more days of 'waiting' between them.
Differences are in the same ballpark as reseating a headphone and are bigger than unit to unit variances.
 

Ezees

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This break in fable is mostly propagated by Vendors as a means of causing you to hesitate in returning a product just long enough for the return window to expire.
I'm sorry you feel that way. But it's okay, there's room for everybody's opinions in this hobby. Only meant to notion that there's more to good sound than FR, group delay, distortion measurements, etc...
 

Zensō

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I'm sorry you feel that way. But it's okay, there's room for everybody's opinions in this hobby. Only meant to notion that there's more to good sound than FR, group delay, distortion measurements, etc...
What are those other things beyond what is measurable that make for good sound?
 
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