• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)

threni

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
999
Likes
1,103
Location
/dev/null
Yes that's what I am using:

View attachment 245780



But I am not sure about what you mean by peak and shelf. Is there something to do in addition to the above?
That looks like you've set about a million values. You only need to set 3 or 4 normally! But I'd guess, if you clicked the little green curve above each frequency (20hz for example) it might let you choose peak, shelf etc. And it looks like the values at the bottom, generally 0.5 in your screenshot, are your q values which need to be correct too. Is there not a video/instructions about this on their site? It's going to be easier to adjust other people's EQ to your taste if you're more comfortable with the tools.
 

Jimbob54

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
9,338
Likes
12,088
Yes that's what I am using:

View attachment 245780



But I am not sure about what you mean by peak and shelf. Is there something to do in addition to the above?
You've used the 31 band geq when you have a PEQ (parametric) eq function. You should have applied the 3 band one, (says for equalizer apo), one of which is a low shelf filter, two are peaks. All those you've set are peaks best as I can tell. See the little peak oco under the frequency on each bar?
 

antanast

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
8
Likes
0
You've used the 31 band geq when you have a PEQ (parametric) eq function. You should have applied the 3 band one, (says for equalizer apo), one of which is a low shelf filter, two are peaks. All those you've set are peaks best as I can tell. See the little peak oco under the frequency on each bar?
Like this right?

1669325856315.png
 

Robbo99999

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,724
Likes
4,406
Location
UK
How can i calculate how much power would i need to run these at 94 db with amirs eq pre gain?
You can use the following link for example:
I plugged in Amirs measured 40 ohm. He had 318mv for 94dB so I kept changing the dB/V value until it registered around 318mv being used (well 350mv is as accurate as that website would go with it) - which gives a headphone sensitivity of 104dB/V:
Sundara Sensitivity.jpg
Amir uses an 8dB boost in the bass, so let's say you need a -8dB negative preamp to cover that which effectively reduces the sensitivity of the headphones by 8dB, which means the headphone goes from 104dB/V to 96dB/V. So then we plug in 96dB/V into the calculator and see what we need to reach 94dB desired loudness:
Sundara Sensitivity with 8dB Negative Preamp.jpg

So you need around 0.8V and 16mw to drive the Sundara to 94dB when using a -8dB Negative Preamp. This is based on the dB at 425Hz though (which is the point Amir measures at for sensitivity), but for the Sundara that's very close to the same value at 1kHz, which is the point that headphones are normally measured for sensitivity in manufacturer specs, so in this case there'd be pretty much the same.
 

Georgeadv

Active Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
222
Likes
40
You can use the following link for example:
I plugged in Amirs measured 40 ohm. He had 318mv for 94dB so I kept changing the dB/V value until it registered around 318mv being used (well 350mv is as accurate as that website would go with it) - which gives a headphone sensitivity of 104dB/V:
View attachment 246180
Amir uses an 8dB boost in the bass, so let's say you need a -8dB negative preamp to cover that which effectively reduces the sensitivity of the headphones by 8dB, which means the headphone goes from 104dB/V to 96dB/V. So then we plug in 96dB/V into the calculator and see what we need to reach 94dB desired loudness:
View attachment 246187
So you need around 0.8V and 16mw to drive the Sundara to 94dB when using a -8dB Negative Preamp. This is based on the dB at 425Hz though (which is the point Amir measures at for sensitivity), but for the Sundara that's very close to the same value at 1kHz, which is the point that headphones are normally measured for sensitivity in manufacturer specs, so in this case there'd be pretty much the same.
Thanks man

But how come the the mv we need is less than what amir measured without the eq?
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
12,604
Likes
28,257
Location
The Neitherlands
How can i calculate how much power would i need to run these at 94 db with amirs eq pre gain?

94dB peak in the low bass, mids or do you mean 94dB 'average' in 'music' ?
There is a huge difference in needed voltage (power).
94dB SPL in the mids requires 0.318V (2.5mW)
94dB SPL in the low bass when EQ'ed to Harman requires 1V (25mW)
94dBA average with music and Harman EQ requires around 6V (1W)
 

Georgeadv

Active Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
222
Likes
40
94dB peak in the low bass, mids or do you mean 94dB 'average' in 'music' ?
There is a huge difference in needed voltage (power).
94dB SPL in the mids requires 0.318V (2.5mW)
94dB SPL in the low bass when EQ'ed to Harman requires 1V (25mW)
94dBA average with music and Harman EQ requires around 6V (1W)
I meant for general music
The power I would need to do amirs eq while listening at 94db average

At what frequency does amir test?
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
12,604
Likes
28,257
Location
The Neitherlands
I meant for general music
The power I would need to do amirs eq while listening at 94db average

Around 1W max. (in 40ohm) when EQing to Harman.
94dB average is an almost uncomfortable loud level, with Harman EQ you could be reaching 110dB peaks and to reach 110dB peaks at 20Hz you need 6V.
It also depends largely on the recording so it could be anything between 2V and 10V in practice.

At what frequency does amir test?
Amir determines the sensitivity at 94dB at 425Hz (I stand corrected) for the left channel.
He measures at 94, 104 and 114dB SPL.
 
Last edited:

Robbo99999

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,724
Likes
4,406
Location
UK
Thanks man

But how come the the mv we need is less than what amir measured without the eq?
You were probably looking at the mw rather than mv (as Jimbob replied to you). Solderdude also has valid points re whether you meant peak or average listening levels - what we've (I've) been calculating is peak RMS values. If it's any indicator though, I generally have my headphones set to be around 86dB or less peak RMS level - which is obviously 8dB less than the 94dB we did the calculations for. So for most people that will probably be loud enough for most modern "pop" music that's not recorded at low levels.
 

Zabizabo

New Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2022
Messages
2
Likes
0
Hi everybody,

For the Black Friday, I got the opportunity to buy the Sundara at a great price. I'm waiting now for it :). I was tired of my too bassy and too warm Meze 99 Classics.

I'm wondering now if my DAP, iBasso DX170, has enough power to drive the Sundara. Has somebody tried this association (or at least with the iBasso DX160)?

Thanks in advance for your answer and have a good day.
 
Top Bottom