Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)

[Ken Tajalli]

While the Sundara may be an upgrade from the HE-560, I have to say I’m disappointed with the build quality and QC. The first set I recently purchased had a defective headband (right side was loose and would not stay in position). I promptly returned those and the replacement set had the worst channel balance I’ve ever encountered in a headphone. That one went back as well. I did very much like the sound of the first set, but the lack of quality control is a shame.

Sadly, that's the going rate for them.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I played about with a Hifiman HE-560 a little while ago, it is similar to Sundara and from same stable.
Reading this review, I recognize some of the issues I had too.
I developed a Mod. which corrected many issues, the up & down frequency response curve, distortions in the "shouty-ness" region and weak bass. Perhaps same could be applied to Sundara.
BE CAREFUL, REMOVE EARCUPS FIRST - CAN EASILY DAMAGE DIAPHRAGM.
The mod. was in two parts:
Used a double sided tape to stick a strip of soft leather strip to the side walls at the back of the driver, leaving suede side out.
View attachment 152183

Used half round brass bars, same width as the magnets, to stick to the back of the magnets, using double sided tape CAREFULLY!

View attachment 152184

I believe the issues with the driver were result of diffraction of sound as it passes the magnet bars sharp edges, causing peaks and troughs in frequency range and some reflection from shiny side walls.

The result was a darker upper mid, no shouty-ness and a little fuller bass.
The upper mid. issue is difraction and distortion, causing it to shout.
For what it is worth.

Update to my Mod.:
I don't know, how long Hifiman has been doing this (found ref. going back 2018 at least), but it seems they had similar idea themselves, though on other models.
Take a look at this, do you see similarities?



It seems, I had the right idea, but obviously Hifiman are no dummies either!
Feel better now!

 

[solderdude]

The idea for this originated from Audeze (the Fazors) it seems.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

The idea for this originated from Audeze (the Fazors) it seems.

Are you saying " great minds think alike" ?
Well thank you.

 

[solderdude]

LOL.. more like ... its better to steal someone's idea than to have no idea at all.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

LOL.. more like ... its better to steal someone's idea than to have no idea at all.

I still take that as a praise, thank you.
Also doing something about it, is more than just having an idea, whether stolen or otherwise.
Hope you agree.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

The idea for this originated from Audeze (the Fazors) it seems.

Did a little research. back in Feb 2013 they were talking about Susvara having stealth magnets.
Audeze implemented first Fazor on 2014 !
I wonder who did it first, perhaps a third party we are not aware of?

 

[solderdude]

maybe the Russians ?

It is very likely someone coined the idea that this might be an issue and both parties picked it up ?

 

[Ken Tajalli]

BTW , this:



The image from back of a Sundara's driver, I believe IS the "stealth magnet" !
Does not look like it, does it? I have checked, the magnets look identical to the models that are claimed to have them.
Not exactly the rounded image they are pushing, but on close examination it has rounded edges and a black coating, that probably together with the rounded edges, does a similar job.
On comparison, the HE-560 has shiny metal hard-edge magnets.

 

[PandaAnonymous]

Decided to buy a pair of Sundara off Amazon, because the local shop is selling at 540 USD. I really love how Sundara sound "subjectively", I am a little worry about the QC but finger cross that it comes nice and perfectly to my ears.

 

[metal571]

The idea for this originated from Audeze (the Fazors) it seems.

I believe DCA's TrueFlow tech is another example of this too

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I believe DCA's TrueFlow tech is another example of this too

Though DCA's implementation is different, but, yes it is similar.

 

[smallricey]

Welcome Aboard @Ezees, and Oh Boy strap in……

So here is what happened with the burn in. I own Hifiman 4XX and Focal Elegia.

When I was listening to 4XX I find the phone come off as too bright for vocal and sound stage is quite small.
It's pretty painful to listen to any jazz or miles davis recording.

So I have been listening to Elegia after getting that. While sometimes plug it in for whatever reason.

After a year or so listening here and there. I just left the 4XX lying around.
Recently, for some reason, 4XX has gotten warmer with larger sound stage and separation.
I'm thinking it's the ear pad, but who knows. It's working so I'm fine with it. Now, I have 2 headsets with 2 different characteristics. Loving it.

 

[solderdude]

Headphones are like cheese or fine wine... the longer they are lying around the tastier they get.

 

[McLenin]

Bought an open box Sundara, had a listen yesterday in the evening, and I couldn`t be happier. Thank you all for the inputs and of course Amir for the review. I found myself only buying stuff recommended here, and spending too much time on this forum researching new threads day after day

 

[JRS]

Me too, I have been meaning to thank the forum--I got my Sundara's a week ago, and while I am waiting for the amp which is apparently on a slow boat from China before pronouncing a final verdict, I must say they are pretty f*ckin fine. I'm using the Oratory pEQ--not quite right, but close. Once I get the amp (poor laptop is wheezing hard to get them to moderately loud volumes) I'll be tweaking.

 

[PandaAnonymous]

I got my Sundara two days ago after I know it’s a lot cheaper to buy on Amazon. Still haven’t EQ the headphone yet but it’s quite amazing and enjoyable because of the open back feature. Despite the bass roll off pre EQ, the headphone is just amazing not just for its value but as a whole.

 

[McLenin]

To be honest, I EQed it right after it was plugged in used the settings from https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq.
Already tried the AutoEq setting on Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro and loved it, so I did not hesitate to EQ Sundaras too.

 

[RHO]

To be honest, I EQed it right after it was plugged in used the settings from https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq.
Already tried the AutoEq setting on Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro and loved it, so I did not hesitate to EQ Sundaras too.

I don't get that mentality.
EQ is for fixing the design-shortcuts/mistakes/inadequacies of the headphones.
Yes, it can sound better with EQ, but it can sound perfectly fine without. Not even trying it without is strange to me. why would you do that?
It like buying a new car and getting it towed straight to a tuning shop to make it run better... "because I really don't want to know how my perfectly fine brand new car drives. I know it can drive more comfortable after I get it tuned." If you know you're not going to like how it drives ... buy a different car!
If you know the headphones are not going to sound as they should ... buy different ones.
EQ is for fixing stuff that are clearly wrong. It should not be the default IMHO.
If my headphones don't sound good without EQ, I don't want them. That doesn't mean I don't use EQ. But most of the time I turn it back off after a while. I haven't even set up a EQ profile for my Sundara yet. I don't feel the need. (all other headphones I own do have an EQ profile in EQ APO, which I seldom use lately.)

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I don't get that mentality.
EQ is for fixing the design-shortcuts/mistakes/inadequacies of the headphones.
Yes, it can sound better with EQ, but it can sound perfectly fine without. Not even trying it without is strange to me. why would you do that?

I am with you on that, however since there are no transparent EQ systems in existence yet, I argue that it can sound better , generally speaking.
I tried and I tried, eventually no EQ was the best sounding to me.
EQ helped one corner but damaged another.