Hifiman Sundara (2020 earpad) - poor cello performance

[taisho]

Yesterday I had headphones listening session on my Topping D10 + JDS Labs Atom. I had the gain button on my amp off.

I have a "well-sounding" (pun intended) EQed DT770 for comparison. I also have DBR-62 speakers that I use on a daily basis as a reference.

I tried it with and without EQ. Apart from an excess of very high treble frequencies and a moderate bass performance, the cellos were completely off. Especially audible when listening to A Lannister Always Pays His Debts.

It sounded like a bit of low-quality bass with very few string instrument characteristics, and a parallel buzz sound as if the resonances were detached. I need to mention that on the old HD600 the cello performance was halfway between Sundara and what I consider good enough (DT770). On HD660s cellos sounded great. The listening levels were low to medium. Did anyone experience the same?

 

[solderdude]

Are you a cello player ?
Are there headphones of which you feel cellos are represented well ?

 

[abdo123]

Are you a cello player ?
Are there headphones of which you feel cellos are represented well ?

He mentioned few headphones under the YouTube clip.

 

[taisho]

Are you a cello player ?
Are there headphones of which you feel cellos are represented well ?

I've edited my initial post. I am not a cello player. I feel like the cello is well-represented on HD660s and on my DBR-62. On DT770 it also doesn't disappoint and would surely give better impressions if the soundstage was wider, but the timbre seems more or less correct.

 

[FrantzM]

Yesterday I had headphones listening session on my Topping D10 + JDS Labs Atom. I had the gain button on my amp off.

I have a "well-sounding" (pun intended) EQed DT770 for comparison. I also have DBR-62 speakers that I use on a daily basis as a reference.

Apart from an excess of very high treble frequencies and a moderate bass performance, the cellos were completely off. Especially audible when listening to A Lannister Always Pays His Debts.

It sounded like a bit of low-quality bass with very few string instrument characteristics, and a parallel buzz sound as if the resonances were detached. I need to mention that on the old HD600 the cello performance was halfway between Sundara and what I consider good enough (DT770). On HD660s cellos sounded great. The listening levels were low to medium. Did anyone experience the same?

Have you EQ-ed the Sundara to the Harman curve? At all? I can't see where you mention that it is EQ-ed.

Peace.

 

[taisho]

Have you EQ-ed the Sundara to the Harman curve? At all? I can't see where you mention that it is EQ-ed.

Peace.

I tried it with and without Oratory1990 EQ, no significant difference on cellos.

 

[staticV3]

@taisho which Sundara did you try and are you sure you used the correct EQ preset for your model?

 

[taisho]

@taisho which Sundara did you try and are you sure you used the correct EQ preset for your model?
View attachment 235549

Good point, but it was the 2020 earpad version and I've checked that the EQ file I used was for the revised earpads. I adjusted my post to make it clear.

 

[solderdude]

Have you tried to EQ the 9kHz peak which is there but is not shown by the usual suspect measurement systems ?
It made mine go from a bit 'etchy' to nice and smooth.

Thew filter used is passive so can't give any Q values or other settings.

Also it has rather high distortion levels at 5.5kHz (8%) at 90dB SPL but that did not seem to be such a deal breaker. Maybe one of the Cello's harmonics is there right at the frequency that has distortion... ho knows. Anyway... I thought mine sounded fine (with filter) albeit a bit low in subbass response. Sold it already though so can't check it.

 

[taisho]

Have you tried to EQ the 9kHz peak which is there but is not shown by the usual suspect measurement systems ?
It made mine go from a bit 'etchy' to nice and smooth.

Thew filter used is passive so can't give any Q values or other settings.

Also it has rather high distortion levels at 5.5kHz (8%) at 90dB SPL but that did not seem to be such a deal breaker. Maybe one of the Cello's harmonics is there right at the frequency that has distortion... ho knows. Anyway... I thought mine sounded fine (with filter) albeit a bit low in subbass response. Sold it already though so can't check it.

Unfortunately, now I don't have access to Sundaras. I tested the headphones at the store on my daily gear. The sound of the cello was so butchered on these Sundaras 2020, that I would assume it was a defective unit, if not that also the old HD600 wasn't good in this area, having the same type of a problem, though much more subtle. The parallel buzz was still here, but not as detached, and there was more actual string sound, though it was still a poor representation. I would consider a problem with powering these high-impedance headphones or distortion, if not the low listening levels where the issues were visible exactly as much.

I don't think that the 9kHz region peak has anything to do with cellos. I can confirm, however, that your measurement is in line with the experience I described in the original post: "an excess of very high treble frequencies". In practice, it was exaggerated cymbals in a couple of punk-rock songs, for example, Lagwagon - May 16.

 

[ahofer]

Personally I wouldn't trust the GOT soundtrack for cellos. Try this on Tidal or Qobuz?