Hifiman HE400SE Review (Headphone)

[steve-z]

This is just an addition to my previous post. Being a pretty old guy (73) i periodically check my HF hearing range to see if there is any deterioration as I'm getting older, a couple of years ago my upper limit was 12khz, when I checked about 6 months ago it was 10khz. I checked a couple of days ago via the HE400SE's and was a little worried that I couldn't hear a 10khz sine wave. Looking back at Amirs frequency sweep I note that there is a very sharp and deep notch at exactly 10khz, realising this I added a high Q (very narrow) 6dB boost at 10khz to Amirs recommended parametric EQ settings and redid the test, to my relief I was able to hear it okay. I have left the correction in place although as the dip at 10khz is so narrow I doubt it would be audible when listening to music.

 

[Robbo99999]

This is just an addition to my previous post. Being a pretty old guy (73) i periodically check my HF hearing range to see if there is any deterioration as I'm getting older, a couple of years ago my upper limit was 12khz, when I checked about 6 months ago it was 10khz. I checked a couple of days ago via the HE400SE's and was a little worried that I couldn't hear a 10khz sine wave. Looking back at Amirs frequency sweep I note that there is a very sharp and deep notch at exactly 10khz, realising this I added a high Q (very narrow) 6dB boost at 10khz to Amirs recommended parametric EQ settings and redid the test, to my relief I was able to hear it okay. I have left the correction in place although as the dip at 10khz is so narrow I doubt it would be audible when listening to music.

That 10kHz notch is not necessarily a real dip in the frequency response - instead all headphones (or pretty much all of them) have a notch at 10kHz when measured on the GRAS rig, so it's just a known measurement quirk and doesn't indicate that there's a real dip in the frequency response of the headphone at that point - therefore I'd be a bit wary about trying to fill that notch, in fact I wouldn't recommend it at all. Even if it was a real dip that's such a sharp steep dip at such a high frequency that it can't really be filled sucessfully anyway, even if there was a real notch that looked like that at this point, but it's not a real notch like I said so wouldn't recommend filling it.

 

[steve-z]

That 10kHz notch is not necessarily a real dip in the frequency response - instead all headphones (or pretty much all of them) have a notch at 10kHz when measured on the GRAS rig, so it's just a known measurement quirk and doesn't indicate that there's a real dip in the frequency response of the headphone at that point - therefore I'd be a bit wary about trying to fill that notch, in fact I wouldn't recommend it at all. Even if it was a real dip that's such a sharp steep dip at such a high frequency that it can't really be filled sucessfully anyway, even if there was a real notch that looked like that at this point, but it's not a real notch like I said so wouldn't recommend filling it.

What you say may very well be correct but as the correction I applied made the difference between me being able to hear the 10khz tone and not hear it, I can only assume that the dip is a real one.

 

[solderdude]

What you say may very well be correct but as the correction I applied made the difference between me being able to hear the 10khz tone and not hear it, I can only assume that the dip is a real one.

@Robbo99999 is correct.
The HE400SE does NOT have a dip at 10kHz.
In fact it actually peaks at that frequency but is obscured because the measurement fixture dips at that frequency.

The dip you see in the plot is caused by the measurement fixture.
Look at all headphone plots made by Amir and you could conclude that all headphones have a dip there.

In fact, all humans actually have a dip around that frequency (somewhere between 8kHz and 12kHz depending on ear geometry).
We don't hear it in music because the brain knows there is a dip.

The fact that you need a boost at 10kHz combined with the fact that the driver already peaks there (+6dB) tells me your hearing starts to drop off before 10kHz already.
Not to worry, there isn't much musical info there anyway + your brain already got used to not hearing that high anyway.

 

[steve-z]

@Robbo99999 is correct.
The HE400SE does NOT have a dip at 10kHz.
In fact it actually peaks at that frequency but is obscured because the measurement fixture dips at that frequency.

The dip you see in the plot is caused by the measurement fixture.
Look at all headphone plots made by Amir and you could conclude that all headphones have a dip there.

In fact, all humans actually have a dip around that frequency (somewhere between 8kHz and 12kHz depending on ear geometry).
We don't hear it in music because the brain knows there is a dip.

The fact that you need a boost at 10kHz combined with the fact that the driver already peaks there (+6dB) tells me your hearing starts to drop off before 10kHz already.
Not to worry, there isn't much musical info there anyway + your brain already got used to not hearing that high anyway.

I don't see that graph in Amirs review.

 

[staticV3]

I don't see that graph in Amirs review.

Correct, that graph is from @solderdude's review: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/measurements/hifiman/he400se/

 

[steve-z]

Correct, that graph is from @solderdude's review: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/measurements/hifiman/he400se/

Not familiar with them but I do trust Amir.

 

[staticV3]

Not familiar with them but I do trust Amir.

The person who performed the measurement is wholly irrelevant in this case.

It's simply the fact that Amir's measurement rig has an inherent 10kHz notch that shows up in every headphone measurement, whereas @solderdude's more basic flat plate measurement rig does not have that flaw.

The flat plate rig has other, arguably more critical flaws than Amir's, but in this specific case (assessing treble response around 10kHz), the flat plate is simply superior.

 

[steve-z]

The person who performed the measurement is wholly irrelevant in this case.

It's simply the fact that Amir's measurement rig has an inherent 10kHz notch that shows up in every headphone measurement, whereas @solderdude's more basic flat plate measurement rig does not have that flaw.

The flat plate rig has other, arguably more critical flaws than Amir's, but in this specific case (assessing treble response around 10kHz), the flat plate is simply superior.

Seems to correlate well with my admittedly rather crude HF hearing test though, at least it shows me I can still actually hear 10khz which was the point of the test in the first place.

 

[Robbo99999]

Seems to correlate well with my admittedly rather crude HF hearing test though, at least it shows me I can still actually hear 10khz which was the point of the test in the first place.

Well you said you could hear 10kHz after you put in the +6dB boost at that point. But like we all said it's not a good idea to boost that area as there's not a dip there in the headphone.

 

[GoldBunEar]

he400se:how many bass u want?
me:YES

fiio KA11+topping L30 II
pre amp -30db

THIS THING CAN HIT ME LIKE A WALL

 

[Adornix_jitz]

View attachment 541912
he400se:how many bass u want?
me:YES

fiio KA11+topping L30 II
pre amp -30db

THIS THING CAN HIT ME LIKE A WALL

:O
and there is no hint of distortion?
are you sure, that your filter where correct applied?

maybe i'll will give it also a little more bass!

 

[GoldBunEar]

:O
and there is no hint of distortion?
are you sure, that your filter where correct applied?

maybe i'll will give it also a little more bass!

the bass sounds quiet clean,all u need is chop off anything under 30HZ otherwise it will makes weird infrasound that sounds real bad and damage the headphone.also i have 3 sets of eq profiles by turning up and down the 19hz for music that have too much bass/too less.

 

[terminus12]

Hi. I’ve had the HE400se Stealth for a while now and I’m really happy with them, but I’m looking for a noticeable upgrade. Would the HE6se v2 be that upgrade? Will I notice the difference? They’re currently $440 on AliExpress (compared to $70 for the HE400se Stealth). My amplifier is a Topping DX1 II.

 

[solderdude]

There is a noticeable difference in sound in the treble quality. Tonality differs a little but not much.

Whether it is worth it or what you seek is another matter.The HE6se v2 will not go as loud as the HE 400SE will on the DX1-II

 

[terminus12]

I use PEQ (Oratory); in this case, will the HE6se v2 offer me something that the HE400se won't?

 

[solderdude]

When the EQ is correct perhaps slightly better treble quality.
The issue is that any measurement on a fixture with any artificial ear simply is not going to be accurate to your ears and your copies of the headphones as you might believe they are. At least not above 5kHz or so.
You might think you have the right 'correction' but it is ONLY a valid correction for a copy, or an average of copies, on an average of seatings on a specific fixture.

Any differences between the HE400SE and HE6SEv2 are above 1kHz so how that 'correction' works out in your case (sounds 'best') is not easy to predict.
In any case you can be sure that with EQ both headphones will have better tonal balance than stock but will still sound different even when science says they should not (equally 'flat' on a corrected curve). The fact that there is a tonal improvement is the value of the generated EQ.
Not so much because the 'tech' of the headphone is better in some way but because the correction you apply is not 'correct in an exact sense' and the actual differences in the treble region are going to be completely different from what the plots suggests (as your ears do not conform to a standard).
This means treble quality will be different but which one you may prefer (with or without EQ) is not set in stone.

 

[YSC]

I am still using the new like 15 years old HE500 and it still rocks, these things both sounded good and are durable as hell