Hifiman HE400SE Review (Headphone)

[Curupira]

I've really liked these HE400SE headphones with a slightly modified Oratory EQ, but I've not been using them much recently - I feel that they fatigue/abuse my right ear (kind of like the right ear feels a bit blocked after using them). I don't know what's causing it, I mean measurements of my unit on my miniDSP EARS don't really show differences between left & right that would explain that.
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Maybe there's something about the anatomy of my right ear that interacts to cause a short sharp treble spike somewhere. The right ear fatigue doesn't always happen when I use them but happens often enough that I think it's related. Since I've stopped using them I've not noticed right ear fatigue since then. They're still the best sounding headphone out of the box for me when used with an unmodified Oratory EQ, so they're super reliable on that front, just this right ear fatigue seems to have slowly come to light. I know short sharp treble spikes have been noted with some other users on this forum with this headphone.

EDIT: many years ago when I first had my HE4XX I had the same problem, and in the same ear, the right ear. Strange. I don't use the HE4XX anymore. These round cup Hifiman's don't seem to be suiting my right ear, weird!

Try doing a sweep with the tone generator at https://squig.link

Close your eyes and focus on the mono sound coming in front of you. Lower the volume so the tone generator isn't very loud (it will be 0dbFS). Start at 1kkhz and go upwards looking for treble spikes that skew towards the right.

 

[GM3]

I feel that they fatigue/abuse my right ear (kind of like the right ear feels a bit blocked after using them). I don't know what's causing it, I mean measurements of my unit on my miniDSP EARS don't really show differences between left & right that would explain that. Maybe there's something about the anatomy of my right ear that interacts to cause a short sharp treble spike somewhere. EDIT: many years ago when I first had my HE4XX I had the same problem, and in the same ear, the right ear. Strange. I don't use the HE4XX anymore. These round cup Hifiman's don't seem to be suiting my right ear, weird!

Had something a bit similar happen a few months/years back, hearing some sort of distortion on the left ear after listening a few minutes. I don't quite recall the details, but I think wearing HPs reversed (L cup on R ear and R on L) it stuck to left ear, so concluded it was ear related. Tried the next day, same thing. So I just stopped using headphones and instead used speakers. Haven't really gone back to HP since then, as the sound quality from nearfield monitors is really good enough, if not even better.

But yes it was weird, it was really HP related, didn't seem to occur other than with HPs, maybe had to do with SPL or maybe eardrum pressure... Btw never listened to excessive volume, 80dB? Some sort of ear fatigue, didn't happen right away, but after maybe 15m of listening it would start to show up.

Just fired up the 400i and been listening for good half hour, everything is fine now. In my case, wasn't pain, really more like a sort of distortion coming from the headphone, but I didn't hear it outside of HPs, and I guess it just went away with time.

For a few weeks too around that time, in shower rinsed ear for ~2-3m under shower head; fill up ear with water for 5s, remove water, rinse & repeat, in case it was something stuck in the ear. Think that helped, could have been something in the ear rubbing on the eardrum or something; get settled then moved with HP pressure/vibrations. Ear clean up at a doctor might have been a good idea too at the time.. But yeah everything seems fine now. *shrug*

 

[Curupira]

This thread discusses a similar problem:

IMD caused by tinnitus?

So, I've not (yet) had a professional hearing test. But, after years of punk rock, loud guitars, mixing sound in small clubs, and crappy theatrical intercom systems, I'm left with permanent tinnitus and hearing loss. It's my constant reminder of how much fun we had in those days. It manifests...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In my case it happens throughout, though. With headphones and iems, both my ears amplify the 11-12khz region exponentially, making undamped headphones like oval Hifiman's pretty unbearable.

 

[jkim]

This thread discusses a similar problem:

IMD caused by tinnitus?

So, I've not (yet) had a professional hearing test. But, after years of punk rock, loud guitars, mixing sound in small clubs, and crappy theatrical intercom systems, I'm left with permanent tinnitus and hearing loss. It's my constant reminder of how much fun we had in those days. It manifests...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In my case it happens throughout, though. With headphones and iems, both my ears amplify the 11-12khz region exponentially, making undamped headphones like oval Hifiman's pretty unbearable.

Exactly my problem. I am very sensitive to high-frequency sibilants in the 11-12 kHz region. I believe FRs of most Hifiman headphones have higher than average energy in this region, anyway. Once tamed, the HE400se is the best bang-for-the-buck headphone to me.

 

[Robbo99999]

Try doing a sweep with the tone generator at https://squig.link

Close your eyes and focus on the mono sound coming in front of you. Lower the volume so the tone generator isn't very loud (it will be 0dbFS). Start at 1kkhz and go upwards looking for treble spikes that skew towards the right.

It's a bit tricky doing that as your natural hearing variation can change with left/right balance through the frequency range, but I suppose I could compare it to a via EQ channel matched K702 that doesn't exhibit the right ear fatigue tendencies. I suppose if I did notice something in the HE400SE when doing that exercise then I could try EQ'ing it down. It's a bit of an exercise, not sure if I'm gonna do that, but worth doing if I want to do something to get the headphone usable for future, as I've staved off them as don't want to damage my ears.

Had something a bit similar happen a few months/years back, hearing some sort of distortion on the left ear after listening a few minutes. I don't quite recall the details, but I think wearing HPs reversed (L cup on R ear and R on L) it stuck to left ear, so concluded it was ear related. Tried the next day, same thing. So I just stopped using headphones and instead used speakers. Haven't really gone back to HP since then, as the sound quality from nearfield monitors is really good enough, if not even better.

But yes it was weird, it was really HP related, didn't seem to occur other than with HPs, maybe had to do with SPL or maybe eardrum pressure... Btw never listened to excessive volume, 80dB? Some sort of ear fatigue, didn't happen right away, but after maybe 15m of listening it would start to show up.

Just fired up the 400i and been listening for good half hour, everything is fine now. In my case, wasn't pain, really more like a sort of distortion coming from the headphone, but I didn't hear it outside of HPs, and I guess it just went away with time.

For a few weeks too around that time, in shower rinsed ear for ~2-3m under shower head; fill up ear with water for 5s, remove water, rinse & repeat, in case it was something stuck in the ear. Think that helped, could have been something in the ear rubbing on the eardrum or something; get settled then moved with HP pressure/vibrations. Ear clean up at a doctor might have been a good idea too at the time.. But yeah everything seems fine now. *shrug*

In the past I've had issues with wax in my ears, but that's not a current problem, but this right ear thing with the HE400SE is headphone specific - doesn't happen on my K702 & HD560s for instance which I use the most. It doesn't happen all the time with the HE400SE, but doesn't happen with the K702 & HD560s.

This thread discusses a similar problem:

IMD caused by tinnitus?

So, I've not (yet) had a professional hearing test. But, after years of punk rock, loud guitars, mixing sound in small clubs, and crappy theatrical intercom systems, I'm left with permanent tinnitus and hearing loss. It's my constant reminder of how much fun we had in those days. It manifests...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In my case it happens throughout, though. With headphones and iems, both my ears amplify the 11-12khz region exponentially, making undamped headphones like oval Hifiman's pretty unbearable.

I don't have tinnitus nor hearing loss, so that's not what I'm experiencing re HE400SE.


I think I'd have to do what @Curupira was talking about re the sine sweeps to see if I can identify if there is something off with how the HE400SE is reacting with my right ear in terms of treble peaks, but I don't know when or if I'll get round to doing that because my other headphones are already very good with EQ. There is something very commendable though about the HE400SE and how good it sound with an Oratory EQ which doesn't always happen with all headphones, but I think there's something going on in the high frequencies that isn't being accounted for (that might be very anatomic reaction specific given it only happens in my right ear with that headphone & given that there doesn't seem to be any channel imbalance when measured on my miniDSP EARS rig).

 

[Curupira]

It's a bit tricky doing that as your natural hearing variation can change with left/right balance through the frequency range, but I suppose I could compare it to a via EQ channel matched K702 that doesn't exhibit the right ear fatigue tendencies. I suppose if I did notice something in the HE400SE when doing that exercise then I could try EQ'ing it down. It's a bit of an exercise, not sure if I'm gonna do that, but worth doing if I want to do something to get the headphone usable for future, as I've staved off them as don't want to damage my ears.


In the past I've had issues with wax in my ears, but that's not a current problem, but this right ear thing with the HE400SE is headphone specific - doesn't happen on my K702 & HD560s for instance which I use the most. It doesn't happen all the time with the HE400SE, but doesn't happen with the K702 & HD560s.


I don't have tinnitus nor hearing loss, so that's not what I'm experiencing re HE400SE.


I think I'd have to do what @Curupira was talking about re the sine sweeps to see if I can identify if there is something off with how the HE400SE is reacting with my right ear in terms of treble peaks, but I don't know when or if I'll get round to doing that because my other headphones are already very good with EQ. There is something very commendable though about the HE400SE and how good it sound with an Oratory EQ which doesn't always happen with all headphones, but I think there's something going on in the high frequencies that isn't being accounted for (that might be very anatomic reaction specific given it only happens in my right ear with that headphone & given that there doesn't seem to be any channel imbalance when measured on my miniDSP EARS rig).

You can also try using a low pass filter on the right channel (or both, to avoid imbalance fatigue) on the highs to see if you get tired.

 

[Robbo99999]

You can also try using a low pass filter on the right channel (or both, to avoid imbalance fatigue) on the highs to see if you get tired.

You mean High Shelf Filter? Low Pass Filter means you're totally cutting off the high frequencies after a certain point. But yeah, I wouldn't use a High Shelf Filter to tackle the problem because it's too general, I'd want to be more specific. I'd be using a Peak Filter to cut any peak I identified, but I may not bother doing that whole exercise anyway, I mainly wanted to communicate my experience with this headphone after owning it for a fair while.

 

[Curupira]

You mean High Shelf Filter? Low Pass Filter means you're totally cutting off the high frequencies after a certain point. But yeah, I wouldn't use a High Shelf Filter to tackle the problem because it's too general, I'd want to be more specific.

No, I did mean Low pass, as a test to see if it's the high frequencies on the right channel that are creating the problem.

 

[Robbo99999]

No, I did mean Low pass, as a test to see if it's the high frequencies on the right channel that are creating the problem.

I see what you mean, that could be a valid test. It's a pain though because it doesn't seem to happen everytime I use them, just I notice the problem occurring occasionally when I use them, so identifying the problem would take quite a long time over a number of sessions where I'd have to commit to using the headphones in a non-ideal state (ie with Low Pass on highs). I'm just not that invested in getting them to work to do all that because I have other headphones that sound great with EQ. If I've got some time on my hands and I'm bored I could do that, but I'm far more likely to do your original idea with the sine sweeps to identify any strange large peaks in right ear and then take them down with Peak EQ filters, but even that I'm not gonna do anytime soon. I mainly wanted to communicate my experience with this headphone after owning it for quite a while (1 yr I think), I've not been using them the whole time, on & off, lots at first, and then I started getting this right ear thing, then I came back to them a few times and got the right ear thing again, and then I put them away for a while & then I thought I'd communicate here re right ear issue. I hadn't communicated earlier on this because I'd thought it could be earwax issue but I was able to rule that out over time eventhough I have had earwax issues interspersed at times.