maximit
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i can send you some hex grills if you want to measure with them. Can also send you another version similar to the custom cans super grills.
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Hifiman HE400SE Review (Headphone)
- Thread starter amirm
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I did do some measurements with and w/o grille. No difference within the limits of repeatability. Thankfully the hexa-grilles are introduced as a cosmetic item. As with all cosmetics, question is how long it holds once the cans are exposed to dust and such.
maximit
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You can glue some fabric on the back of the grills if you are worried about dust, Ive seen a few people do that.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Frequency response of HE-400i (2020) with and without grille
Frequency response of HE-400i with grille + 3mm felt behind the driver (so quite a lot of damping and damping behind the driver) vs without grille.
Damping behind the driver affects bass response, before the driver affected treble response)
CSD comparison with and without grille
spectrum comparison with and without grille
Currently only have the 400i (which I can't seem to offload)
Frequency response of HE-400i with grille + 3mm felt behind the driver (so quite a lot of damping and damping behind the driver) vs without grille.
Damping behind the driver affects bass response, before the driver affected treble response)
CSD comparison with and without grille
spectrum comparison with and without grille
Thanks for the offer but I'm afraid there is not much to measure as these grilles will be essentially the same as no grille.
Currently only have the 400i (which I can't seem to offload)
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Indeed, the original grilles also have a dust filter (fine cloth) on it.
Dust and small particles would be my main concern too.
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So based on @solderdude 's measuring, then at least the modded grills won't make any noticeable difference to frequency response, so that's good. That's assuming the holes in the grill are the same size on the HE400i as they are in the HE400SE, which I think they are. (just added dust as a concern)
ishmeister
Active Member
Picked up one of these and I'm very happy with it so far (EQed). This wooly headband wrap has been a massive improvement in comfort for me. This is going to be my main headphone from now on I think (except for gaming where I'll continue to use the HD 560S).
It's a really surprisingly good headphone, and the fact that it comes at a low price is icing on the cake......and your mod keeps the headband warm too, "there's a nice headphone, who's a good headphone, you're a good headphone aren't you", good to see you looking after it!
musichunter1x
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After having HE400SE stealth magnet version and 7hz zero2 I think I need to tune 7hz zero2 more like he400se, coz I prefer to listen on the big one way more often. But I doubt, that I can get similar enough feel with EQ, especially without measurements... Is it right?
Also I am surprised, than some say it may be hard to power them, when even my temporary phone - motorola G53 has a bit of room for a lot of tracks and still EQ is far more important than specs of a source... Yeah, it has overhead even with -6.6db.
Qudelix 5k even with low gain mode has way more than enough.
It is silly, that I have more fun with used headphones bought for ~70$ with cheap smartphone, than in old days of using DAC for 200$ + amp for ~300$ and akg k612 without EQ.
I quess my search is over, but I may need to find something as fun as HE400SE for outside, or get better EQ / fit with my zero2. Did someone found a similar joy by using IEMs? My EQ is:
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 105 Hz Gain 6.6 dB Q 0.700
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 142 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 0.180
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1919 Hz Gain 6.2 dB Q 1.840
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4294 Hz Gain -4.0 dB Q 0.580
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5241 Hz Gain 6.1 dB Q 1.990
Filter 6: ON HS Fc 10000 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 0.700
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 124 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 2.470
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 59 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 1.920
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 262 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 3.150
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 2.2 dB Q 0.400
Also I am surprised, than some say it may be hard to power them, when even my temporary phone - motorola G53 has a bit of room for a lot of tracks and still EQ is far more important than specs of a source... Yeah, it has overhead even with -6.6db.
Qudelix 5k even with low gain mode has way more than enough.
It is silly, that I have more fun with used headphones bought for ~70$ with cheap smartphone, than in old days of using DAC for 200$ + amp for ~300$ and akg k612 without EQ.
I quess my search is over, but I may need to find something as fun as HE400SE for outside, or get better EQ / fit with my zero2. Did someone found a similar joy by using IEMs? My EQ is:
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 105 Hz Gain 6.6 dB Q 0.700
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 142 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 0.180
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1919 Hz Gain 6.2 dB Q 1.840
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4294 Hz Gain -4.0 dB Q 0.580
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5241 Hz Gain 6.1 dB Q 1.990
Filter 6: ON HS Fc 10000 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 0.700
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 124 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 2.470
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 59 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 1.920
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 262 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 3.150
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 2.2 dB Q 0.400
Where did you get your EQ from? Is it an Oratory EQ? An EQ to the Harman Curve? If it's an EQ to the Harman Curve and you enjoy that, then theoretically you should enjoy IEM's that are also EQ'd to Harman Curve. The Harman IEM target is slightly different to the Over Ear Harman Target, but in broad terms they should sound similar.
Some time ago I reported a severe variability in the frequency response of the 400SE. I had three random specimen at the same time. Most prominently a resonance at about 8kHz, 6 to 9 dB high was there with one cup (one side that is), not with the other. Do people tend to ignore bad news?
Second to that the distortion figures were strangely different for all individual cups. One specimen though was consistent left/right. One to two percent of distortion throughout the freqency bands at moderatle level of 94dB. (All my measurements were relpeatable over several days in different arrangements.)
Against this background the very detailed EQs shown above don't make much sense. First of all the Harman is not a target for individual listening, it may be a starting point, though. You may want to deliberately adjust after basic EQ to your personal preference. Science leaves you at that, with your preference. Huge deviations from the Harman are expected as not to say are necessary for an optimum.
I disagree, my sample seems pretty consistent between channels when I measured it, and it sounds great with a detailed EQ derived from Oratory's published measurement of the headphone. In fact it sounded very neutral and accurate with his EQ out of the box which is unusual for headphones in my experience. Strangely I noticed the same neutral tonality for his EQ of the HE4XX which is another round Hifiman headphone. My experience doesn't gel with yours. You've already mentioned the problems you had, you don't have to keep bringing them up when someone is posting a detailed EQ or having a positive experience with the headphone. In my experience and from my point of view it's valid for him to use a detailed EQ along the lines of an Oratory EQ for this headphone.
Does this output of automation make sense:
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 59 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 1.920
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 262 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 3.150
The Harman adopts to an average, not to any living person, hence is necessarily a mismatch. Why not try to get the match right with an individual equalizer? What do you prefer?
I had three at the same time, all were bad. You want me to shut up? Granted.
Those two particular filters don't make that much sense if they had been created/tuned by ear, but Oratory EQ is a "computerised" EQ done to the Harman Curve and those filters you list don't harm anything - in fact together they could just subtley work together to shift the headphone in the right direction when talking about an average unit. There's nothing wrong with it. I think from Oratory's point of view there's no point in compromising on the precision of the EQ to the Harman Curve if you're already committing to be using 10 bands of parametric EQ - it's natural that some of the filters will be more impactful and more important than others. It's a no harm situation.
I knew that. In some other thread I pointed to a new target, "The New 2025 IEF Target". It is new and different, but still addresses the average person, who ever that will be. You didn't reply to my point targeting the averaging in contrast to each individual's traits.
Maybe the question for a "better equalizer" in post #830 may be directly answered with this: "only to peek if it is there, try to equalize a peak of 6dB (set: -6dB) at 8kHz, Q=5, and expect it to be different, only in case, on the two sides". It may take away a bit of resolution, but also remove grittiness - just in case.
Enjoy!
Yep, I didn't reply to a couple of your points, that's because I'm not going down a rabbit hole with you in a review thread when I was just making a simple point earlier.
AryaStealth
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I was suspecting something like that must have been the issue with my pair. The funniest thing that I listened to them only for 15 minutes and got some instant high frequency hearing loss in my left ear. The volume I listened to felt no more than 75db average.
musichunter1x
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It is the "Filk" EQ from qudelix 5k auto eq presets. I was plaing with all kind EQ and modified some, but at the end this worked best and I have peace of mind.
On Graph it looks simple, it just lowers most other Freq and ends up with 2 peaks and one shelf. It is crazy, that it sounds good enough with even basic smartphone.
I went back with to my EQ of 7hz zero2 and juist switching back to amirm simple EQ did a thing. Probably I forgot to tune down my settings after playing to much with them earlier and switching to he400se v2 for most stuff.
Do this problems from model variation / quality controll are rly that often? I was thinking about buying another he400 later, for my sister.
Background, had three. One was new, and it wasn't o/k, the other two were open box. That's no statistics one could derive a conclusion from. I settled, for the time being to this - not to be mistaken as an optimum for anyone, but equalizes left/right to about +/-0.7dB:
Global e/q both sides
and x Left:
and x Right:
I had to do something with 3 pairs of cups you know ... better don't ask. I kept one eventually. Would it be wise to open a poll in this form, I don't know. Only few measure their headphones.
It's difficult to say to what an extent quality control or unit to unit variation affects various headphones. All that can be done is that a person (& people preferably with same measurement rig) can measure multiple units and see what kind of variations they get. My HE400SE and also my HE4XX which are both round Hifimans sounded tonally very good with an unchanged Oratory EQ, which is an unusual situation amoungst my various headphones, so for me I feel that Hifiman have pretty low unit to unit variation. Measured channel matching for my HE400SE was also good as seen in following graph, so that's a good sign for quality control, albeit of course it's just my one unit:
HE400SE is not an expensive headphone, so it's worth a punt for your sister, and if you buy it through Amazon then maybe you can send it back easily if you get a bad unit.
So, for your EQ what's a ""Filk" EQ", I've never heard of that, what's it mean??
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