Hifiman HE400i Review (planar headphone)

[Bob-23]

Thanks for this. I have been thinking about getting the X2HR phones. I remember your favourable discussion of them on your site, but also noted your concern about quality control with them, that they seem inconsistent pair-to-pair. This is one reason why I am still hesitating about them.

I've got them, too - and I like them very much. Replacement pads are indeed not available anymore (seem to have been), and as Solderdude pointed out, aftermarket pads may change the sound (to the bad, or to the good). I read somebody put K70? (don't remember which ones, think it was K702) on them, and he was satisfied. I could imagine that the pads of the K712 would be most adequate, being gel pads as the X2Hrs pads. And apart from that, X3's pads seem to be the same (?), and Philips might sell them in the future (?).

Soundstage is most important for me, and it is true, that the K702 deliver a bit more of it - but K702 are extremely picky with the quality of the recording, brutally honest exposing even the slightest flaw of a recording. They are best on slow floating wide soundscapes (instrumental music, think of Cinematic Orchestra).

X2Hr, on the other side, are very forgiving, and work well in every genre. And X2Hr have more 'body' and 'warmth' and 'punch'. So, even if X2Hr present a little less soundstage width (compared to the K702), for me it's (nearly) compensated by a very spacious soundstage, and the plus in 'body' and 'warmth', and it might even be - at least sometimes, in some recordings - that its soundstage is a bit more precise and integrated. I eq'd mine to Oratory1990, I think that's a must.

Rtings writes:
"The Philips X2HR have a very good passive soundstage. Thanks to their open-back design, their soundstage is very spacious and open and music is perceived as being in front of you as opposed to inside your head."
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/philips/fidelio-x2hr

Physical build quality is excellent, relatively heavy (because of that), clamping pressure can be reduced by bending the the headband. Mine don't have quality issues. - And they are half the price now they once were. I think it's a bargain.

 

[MZKM]

Effect of smoothing & averaging:

Score using raw L&R averaged: 77
Score using smoothed deviation Left: 81
Score using smoothed 1/12 interpolated Left: 79
Score using smoothed 1/12 interpolated L&R average: 80

Will have to dig some more into why the higher resolution deviation data got a higher score than the 1/12 data.

 

[DualTriode]

I've got them, too - and I like them very much. Replacement pads are indeed not available anymore (seem to have been), and as Solderdude pointed out, aftermarket pads may change the sound (to the bad, or to the good). I read somebody put K70? (don't remember which ones, think it was K702) on them, and he was satisfied. I could imagine that the pads of the K712 would be most adequate, being gel pads as the X2Hrs pads. And apart from that, X3's pads seem to be the same (?), and Philips might sell them in the future (?).

Soundstage is most important for me, and it is true, that the K702 deliver a bit more of it - but K702 are extremely picky with the quality of the recording, brutally honest exposing even the slightest flaw of a recording. They are best on slow floating wide soundscapes (instrumental music, think of Cinematic Orchestra).

X2Hr, on the other side, are very forgiving, and work well in every genre. And X2Hr have more 'body' and 'warmth' and 'punch'. So, even if X2Hr present a little less soundstage width (compared to the K702), for me it's (nearly) compensated by a very spacious soundstage, and the plus in 'body' and 'warmth', and it might even be - at least sometimes, in some recordings - that its soundstage is a bit more precise and integrated. I eq'd mine to Oratory1990, I think that's a must.

Rtings writes:
"The Philips X2HR have a very good passive soundstage. Thanks to their open-back design, their soundstage is very spacious and open and music is perceived as being in front of you as opposed to inside your head."
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/philips/fidelio-x2hr

Physical build quality is excellent, relatively heavy (because of that), clamping pressure can be reduced by bending the the headband. Mine don't have quality issues. - And they are half the price now they once were. I think it's a bargain.

For soundstage I much prefer the DIY near field monitors on my bench top with a sub-woofer tucked away below. Headphones are for in the middle of the night when I do not want to wake the house.

Thanks DT

 

[Robbo99999]

That torn down photo was taken from this user's post on Head-Fi.

Ah, I see! Well, it doesn't matter, I'm happy with Amir's review here, and some of the context you put it into in relation to the HE4XX.....just the soundstage for me to focus on when I test the HE4XX I reckon....after Christmas when they arrive.

 

[zepplock]

Offtopic: Oh wow didn't know Amir is into Scandinavian music, Kristin Asbjørnsen is awesome. You should listen to Khmer album by Nils Petter Molvaer. That's where deep bass is

 

[AudioSmell]

Here is the K702:

Don't get too hung up on distortion numbers. Harman tells us it is inconsequential for sound quality. Why worry ?

Dear solderdude, then please in your opinion, what are the most important measureable factors which lead to / define gentle and refined sound?

Sometimes I listen to a pair of headphones, which to me sound close to live music and all the instruments in any song are very detailed, to the extent they (figuratively speaking) live their own life and it is easy to hear them separated without effort or paying attention. As if any song became a superposition of all the tracks mixed together and I notice the source tracks more than with other good headphones.
What is the root cause? I thought it is low distortion.
Or is it in good level and channel matching in the select area of FR? The highs which define contours of instruments/voice?
Please advise.
Thank you.

 

[Robbo99999]

Dear solderdude, then please in your opinion, what are the most important measureable factors which lead to / define gentle and refined sound?

Sometimes I listen to a pair of headphones, which to me sound close to live music and all the instruments in any song are very detailed, to the extent they (figuratively speaking) live their own life and it is easy to hear them separated without effort or paying attention. As if any song became a superposition of all the tracks mixed together and I notice the source tracks more than with other good headphones.
What is the root cause? I thought it is low distortion.
Or is it in good level and channel matching in the select area of FR? The highs which define contours of instruments/voice?
Please advise.
Thank you.

I think what you're talking about is general clarity & soundstage.

Frequency response is the most important aspect of this and effects both of those points above, I know from EQ'ing headphones that this can increase clarity which will allow you to easier follow the separate tracks of the song. In terms of frequency response for a speaker it would be a flat speaker as the ideal, and in headphones this is more complicated as we all hear headphones differently to each other, as we have anatomy of head & ears that differently shapes what the frequency response is at your eardrum (called the HRTF).....so an ideal situation for a headphone would be if it was able to create that highly individual shaped frequency response at your eardrum which is not possible on a practical level because we all have different or slightly different HRTF's.....so that's why people EQ headphones to try to get them as close to their own personal HRTF as possible, which most of the time means EQ'ing to the Headphone Harman Curve, which is based on a "population average" if you will, so it's fairly rarely an exact fit for the listener, but a lot closer than an unEQ'd headphone in most situations.

Clarity is also helped not only by the Frequency Response above, but also by distortion, in other words low distortion, which means the headphone is reproducing the signals it's being asked to play faithfully & accurately without other "information/noise" that is not included in the original signal.

Soundstage is more complicated, and I don't fully understand how it's created in a headphone, and I'm not sure that anyone really understands how it's created (but I could be wrong about that). This soundstage is more the property of a headphone sounding like a set of speakers rather than the in-your-head experience typical of most headphones. This is enhanced by angled pads or drivers, enabling greater interaction with the pinna of your ear. I don't know a whole lot about this part, and might be wrong about a few things, but soundstage I don't think is totally understood by the industry. Frequency response also effects this soundstage, like I mentioned, and ideally you'd want it close to your own HRTF (which is easier said than done), and most people would just rely on the Headphone Harman Curve in an attempt to get reasonably close to it, or at least closer to it in most instances. It helps to have a set of flat reference speakers arranged in an equilateral triangle to your listening position as a frame of reference for how close your EQ'd headphones are on your favourite tracks to that when played on your speakers, both for the soundstage variable & the frequency response (tonality) variable.

I'm sure there's some things I've missed out, and maybe a few points not quite accurate, but I've given you my understanding on the topic. Headphone listening can often mean a lot of personal experimentation with different headphones and different frequency responses to get as accurate as possible.

 

[solderdude]

Dear solderdude, then please in your opinion, what are the most important measurable factors which lead to / define gentle and refined sound?

I'll let you know when I figure it out with certainty.
In general, when there is little amplitude variation in the treble and there are no deep dips there (on my rig, this doesn't work on HATS) the treble quality in general is good. It can be elevated yet smooth and can be subdued yet smooth because of the average level compared to the 300Hz - 1kHz range.
Lots of peaks and dips (and deep ones) usually result in gritty or coarser treble instead of 'smooth'. In some cases it is still agreeable to me and cymbals etc. still have a decent sound. Don't know why that is.
The above general rule doesn't always apply though. Could be that peaks in treble that are audible to this or that person and or measurable or not on certain rigs may not be an issue for someone else's ears.

 

[sejarzo]

I bought a lightly used pair of HE400i's about 2 years ago. The seller included the stock pads plus the BrainWavz sheepskin pads, and the difference in bass response was far greater than I imagined it would be. I had used HD600s for about 12 years, and thought the 400s balance was weirdly shrill/bass light with the stock pads. Put on the sheepskin pads and that fixed much of the light bass problem, probably 3-4 dB better response.

Over time I have looked at the various FR curves from various sources. Here's what I ended up with using MathAudio HeadphoneEQ in Foobar, with Amir's EQ below it for reference:

FWIW, I find the typical HP target curves too hot in the 2-3 kHz region for both over-the-ears or IEMs for typically mastered pop/rock material.

Edit/caveat: A hearing test a few years back showed that I have reduced response from 4-8 kHz (worse in one ear than the other) so perhaps that has something to do with my preference for less boost in the 2-3 kHz region. Cutting the response in the 8-9 kHz region always seems to lessen listening fatigue for me and reduces my impression of "false detail" in most phones.

 

[sejarzo]

Soundstage is more complicated, and I don't fully understand how it's created in a headphone, and I'm not sure that anyone really understands how it's created (but I could be wrong about that). This soundstage is more the property of a headphone sounding like a set of speakers rather than the in-your-head experience typical of most headphones. This is enhanced by angled pads or drivers, enabling greater interaction with the pinna of your ear. ...

That is what I would have assumed. However, IMHO, there is as noticeable a difference in perceived width of the stereo image between various IEMs that I have owned as with my on-ear phones over the years. That baffles me.

 

[Robbo99999]

That is what I would have assumed. However, IMHO, there is as noticeable a difference in perceived width of the stereo image between various IEMs that I have owned as with my on-ear phones over the years. That baffles me.

That could well be the effect of the frequency response of the IEM's varying in how close they are to matching your individual HRTF.

 

[phoenixsong]

That is what I would have assumed. However, IMHO, there is as noticeable a difference in perceived width of the stereo image between various IEMs that I have owned as with my on-ear phones over the years. That baffles me.

Indeed, I've been wondering about this too. I am thinking learning more about sound production and the basic concept of how analogue signals are received and given out by headphone drivers would help me understand it better

 

[sejarzo]

That could well be the effect of the frequency response of the IEM's varying in how close they are to matching your individual HRTF.

Indeed, I've been wondering about this too. I am thinking learning more about sound production and the basic concept of how analogue signals are received and given out by headphone drivers would help me understand it better

All that does make sense, in that I note the difference in perceived soundstage between IEMs to be greater with multimiked pop/rock studio material versus properly minimally miked orchestral recording.

Most of what I have read over the years attributes the sense of location to timing/phase differences between the ears, but panning a single-miked instrument between left and right channels in studio mix could only impact relative loudness, right? Weird.

 

[phoenixsong]

All that does make sense, in that I note the difference in perceived soundstage between IEMs to be greater with multimiked pop/rock studio material versus properly minimally miked orchestral recording.

Most of what I have read over the years attributes the sense of location to timing/phase differences between the ears, but panning a single-miked instrument between left and right channels in studio mix could only impact relative loudness, right? Weird.

Yup, I can see how relative loudness would affect perceived distance, but not the positioning

 

[Deleted member 5035]

I only use closed HPs today, but I'm curious about open headphones.

They should give me different sound and experience. But people says: Get the Sennhieser 600 or 650, I don't like them or the price. I've been looking for other alternatives.

I really can't get hold of many headphones, so the measurements that @amirm is doing is a great tool to start out with.

Open headphones do sound better, but do not have the bass of closed headphones. If you are a basshead, forget them. If you are into detail, and would appreciate a more accurate, natural, open, airy sound, then try open headphones, and you'll never go back. When I was young, I used to crank up the bass and treble, not realizing that all the detail is in the midrange. I now prefer accurate, neutral headphones that recreate the music the way it was intended to sound.

The Sennheiser HD-560S headphones are excellent, at $200. They are very popular, and the only place I was able to get a pair was from the Sennheiser website. I love planar headphones - their level of detail, airiness, and transient response is unmatched - but I cannot recommend the 400i. They are just too bass shy. I own the HD-560S (and the HiFiMan Arya).

 

[Deleted member 5035]

How is Amir applying EQ to these headphones? Can someone kindly explain what gear is used to do this?

If you listen from a PC, Equalizer APO is the way to go. Otherwise, you are stuck with whatever EQ your device offers. If you're using an Android device, many music listening apps have EQ.

 

[LBec]

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!

It is getting way too confusing.

Any help will be appreciated.

I am seriously thinking of buying a some nice headphones (to me nice
means in the $75 to $180 dollar range).

To give you an idea of what I like, the best speakers I own are
Infinity 162s bought on sale based on the review and recommendation on this site.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Absolutely love these with a small low power subwoofer not turned up too high;
to just nudge the bass.

I am assuming that these speakers are mostly neutral but I could be wrong.

I mostly listen to rock with a mix of everything else (eg classical, jazz).

I do NOT plan to equalize however I might build a simple passive
filter (https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/passive-filters/).

This is for home listening however NO headphone amp. The CD player
and receiver have headphone out but I might also listen off the PC with an
Apple dongle.

I looked at https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/recommended-ones/
however while I love the site and it helps me narrow down the list
it does not help me make a final choice.
Unfortunately these days there are not many local stores where I can really try
out headphones so I am left doing mailorder (I know, ancient term) so at most I
could buy 2 and return 1.

Comfort is REALLY important. Need to be able to wear the headpones
for a few hours at a time. I have thrown out workable headphones because
I could not relax the clamping pressure.

I currently own JBL Tune 750BTNC and M&O MOOH-BE00BT,
I bought these because they were cheap bluetooth enabled headphones.
For me the M&O headphones are very comfortable.
I don't hate the sound of the M&O headphones directly plugged in however
looking for something better.

This leaves me with the following to choose between at current prices
and availability (in no particular order):

AKG K553 MKII - $99

Audio-Technica ATH-M40x - $99
Audio-Technica ATH-M50x - $149

HIFIMAN HE-35X - $75
HIFIMAN HE4XX - $180
HIFIMAN HE400i 2020 Version-3.5mm - $169

Philips Fidelio X2HR - $145
(really worried about the clamping pressure and and Quality Control,
although I am thinking I could adjust db levels if necessary with a simple outside filter
not sure how easy it is to adjust clamping pressure)

Philips SHP9500 - $75
Philips SHP9600 - $110

Sennheiser HD 559 - $100
(not sure why this on the reccomended list given the dtailed review)
HD58X Jubilee (Drop) - $170
(it seems there is a way to reduce clamping force however not sure
I can adequately drive these)

I would prefer not spending more than neccesary for marginally better performance.
Also, these days I do not hear much above around 11kHz.

 

[Rayman30]

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!

It is getting way too confusing.

Any help will be appreciated.

I am seriously thinking of buying a some nice headphones (to me nice
means in the $75 to $180 dollar range).

To give you an idea of what I like, the best speakers I own are
Infinity 162s bought on sale based on the review and recommendation on this site.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Absolutely love these with a small low power subwoofer not turned up too high;
to just nudge the bass.

I am assuming that these speakers are mostly neutral but I could be wrong.

I mostly listen to rock with a mix of everything else (eg classical, jazz).

I do NOT plan to equalize however I might build a simple passive
filter (https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/passive-filters/).

This is for home listening however NO headphone amp. The CD player
and receiver have headphone out but I might also listen off the PC with an
Apple dongle.

I looked at https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/recommended-ones/
however while I love the site and it helps me narrow down the list
it does not help me make a final choice.
Unfortunately these days there are not many local stores where I can really try
out headphones so I am left doing mailorder (I know, ancient term) so at most I
could buy 2 and return 1.

Comfort is REALLY important. Need to be able to wear the headpones
for a few hours at a time. I have thrown out workable headphones because
I could not relax the clamping pressure.

I currently own JBL Tune 750BTNC and M&O MOOH-BE00BT,
I bought these because they were cheap bluetooth enabled headphones.
For me the M&O headphones are very comfortable.
I don't hate the sound of the M&O headphones directly plugged in however
looking for something better.

This leaves me with the following to choose between at current prices
and availability (in no particular order):

AKG K553 MKII - $99

Audio-Technica ATH-M40x - $99
Audio-Technica ATH-M50x - $149

HIFIMAN HE-35X - $75
HIFIMAN HE4XX - $180
HIFIMAN HE400i 2020 Version-3.5mm - $169

Philips Fidelio X2HR - $145
(really worried about the clamping pressure and and Quality Control,
although I am thinking I could adjust db levels if necessary with a simple outside filter
not sure how easy it is to adjust clamping pressure)

Philips SHP9500 - $75
Philips SHP9600 - $110

Sennheiser HD 559 - $100
(not sure why this on the reccomended list given the dtailed review)
HD58X Jubilee (Drop) - $170
(it seems there is a way to reduce clamping force however not sure
I can adequately drive these)

I would prefer not spending more than neccesary for marginally better performance.
Also, these days I do not hear much above around 11kHz.

Out of that list, the Hifiman HE400i 2020 for sure.

Are you treble sensitive? if not then a pair of Beyerdyanamic DT 770 32-Ohm are comfortable and very detailed.

 

[bobbooo]

Out of that list, the Hifiman HE400i 2020 for sure.

Are you treble sensitive? if not then a pair of Beyerdyanamic DT 770 32-Ohm are comfortable and very detailed.

The HE4XX is a better headphone than the HE400i:

Better bass extension, generally smoother response, and better treble extension (important for good 'resolution' / 'detail').

 

[Rayman30]

The HE4XX is a better headphone than the HE400i:

View attachment 102110

Better bass extension, generally smoother response, and better treble extension (important for good 'resolution' / 'detail').

Maybe, but after watching my HE4XX fall apart with minimal use, I am hesitant to recommend them, I cannot speak for the reliability of the HE400i, but I assumed they are better from reviews I have seen.