Hifiman HE400i Review (planar headphone)

[watchnerd]

Man you're doing some dancing!

I don't understand what dancing you're referring to.

Yes, I'm not using the stock pads right now. Yes, I know that changing the pads affects measurements and EQ.

That's why I asked to confirm that Amir used the stock pads.

 

[dazedandconfused]

Yeah, sure, what I meant is that if they are a different design of earpad to the ones measured then it will effect the frequency response, and then the EQ is not valid anymore....to a lesser or greater degree depending what & how much is changed within the response, but you don't really know until you measure it with the different earpads.....but my approach would be to assume the EQ is invalidated by using different earpads.

I've got the Dekoni pads on mine (way better quality that Pali pads or stock pads) and they still work beautifally with Amir's EQ

 

[amirm]

@amirm I assume the test results are with the original earpads?

It is. I bought some aftermarket pads but I forget for which headphone.

 

[watchnerd]

I've got the Dekoni pads on mine (way better quality that Pali pads or stock pads) and they still work beautifally with Amir's EQ

Are the Dekonis more comfortable or are they better in some sonic way?

 

[Robbo99999]

I've got the Dekoni pads on mine (way better quality that Pali pads or stock pads) and they still work beautifally with Amir's EQ

Well that's good, but if you're wanting to EQ based on the measurements you see, then doing that with different pads to the ones that have been measured is not the ideal situation for the reasons already discussed. Essentially you can't guarantee that the measurements would be the same. Yes, there's variation from person to person anyway in terms of what they're hearing at their eardrum based on how the headphone interacts with physical structure of your ear & ear canal, and then on top of that there's the psychoacoustic influence of your own HRTF that will determine how you perceive that response that is actually happening at your eardrum.....so there is a lot of variables already in terms of if one person's EQ will work for you (even if it is based on measurements), but the point is that the accuracy & validity of the EQ & measurement is certainly not increased (the opposite of course) by using different pads to those that have been measured & on which the EQ is based. I am saying all this because I don't think people should willy nilly change the pads on their headphones if they're serious about using headphone measurements to EQ their headphones, I think this needs to be said so that people reading this can get the most accurate representative experience.

It is. I bought some aftermarket pads but I forget for which headphone.

I'm sure you would note in your review if you were not using stock pads, due to the effect different pads have on frequency response. This is more for the readers.....if the review doesn't say otherwise then it's stock pads, that's pretty obvious to me.

 

[Jimbob54]

Well that's good, but if you're wanting to EQ based on the measurements you see, then doing that with different pads to the ones that have been measured is not the ideal situation for the reasons already discussed. Essentially you can't guarantee that the measurements would be the same. Yes, there's variation from person to person anyway in terms of what they're hearing at their eardrum based on how the headphone interacts with physical structure of your ear & ear canal, and then on top of that there's the psychoacoustic influence of your own HRTF that will determine how you perceive that response that is actually happening at your eardrum.....so there is a lot of variables already in terms of if one person's EQ will work for you (even if it is based on measurements), but the point is that the accuracy & validity of the EQ & measurement is certainly not increased (the opposite of course) by using different pads to those that have been measured & on which the EQ is based. I am saying all this because I don't think people should willy nilly change the pads on their headphones if they're serious about using headphone measurements to EQ their headphones, I think this needs to be said so that people reading this can get the most accurate representative experience.

I'm sure you would note in your review if you were not using stock pads, due to the effect different pads have on frequency response. This is more for the readers.....if the review doesn't say otherwise then it's stock pads, that's pretty obvious to me.

And yet, despite all of this, @dazedandconfused enjoys their phones with aftermarket pads and Amir's EQ. I don't know how they dare, really.

 

[Robbo99999]

And yet, despite all of this, @dazedandconfused enjoys their phones with aftermarket pads and Amir's EQ. I don't know how they dare, really.

Don't be silly, people can do whatever they want. It doesn't change my advice.

 

[Jimbob54]

Don't be silly, people can do whatever they want.

As long as they are prepared to accept unsolicited treatise and lectures, yes.

 

[Robbo99999]

As long as they are prepared to accept unsolicited treatise and lectures, yes.

You're being a drama queen again, as per usual, turning it into something it's not. I'm just posting sensible advice on how best to use EQ's from measurements.....in terms of not modifying the headphone (different pads) and then expecting it to be representative of the measurement. It renders the measurement invalid to a greater or lesser degree depending on how different the pads are, and therefore makes a mockery of the initial intention to use a measurement on which to base an EQ in the first place. It's not rocket science, just a sensible point to make.....if pads had no effect on the frequency response of a headphone, then I'd say "cool, you've changed your pads, the EQ is still valid, you can be happy about that", but I'm not gonna say that because that's not the case....instead it's more like "oh dear, you've based your EQ on a measurement that is now invalidated because you're using different pads". If he enjoys the EQ, then fine, just it's not an advisable approach for readers to take. I take the trouble of writing these posts on this topic so people don't go willy nilly swapping pads and expecting themselves to get good results using EQ's made from measurements of headphones using stock pads. It's just logic & science......not your drama.

 

[Jimbob54]

You're being a drama queen again, as per usual, turning it into something it's not. I'm just posting sensible advice on how best to use EQ's from measurements.....in terms of not modifying the headphone (different pads) and then expecting it to be representative of the measurement. It renders the measurement invalid to a greater or lesser degree depending on how different the pads are, and therefore makes a mockery of the initial intention to use a measurement on which to base an EQ in the first place. It's not rocket science, just a sensible point to make.....if pads had no effect on the frequency response of a headphone, then I'd say "cool, you've changed your pads, the EQ is still valid, you can be happy about that", but I'm not gonna say that because that's not the case....instead it's more like "oh dear, you've based your EQ on a measurement that is now invalidated because you're using different pads". If he enjoys the EQ, then fine, just it's not an advisable approach for readers to take. I take the trouble of writing these posts on this topic so people don't go willy nilly swapping pads and expecting themselves to get good results using EQ's made from measurements of headphones using stock pads. It's just logic & science......not your drama.

 

[watchnerd]

I've got the Dekoni pads on mine (way better quality that Pali pads or stock pads) and they still work beautifally with Amir's EQ

Are these the ones you have?

https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...epskin-earpads-for-select-hifiman-headphones/

 

[Jimbob54]

Are these the ones you have?

https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...epskin-earpads-for-select-hifiman-headphones/

I can vouch for dekoni pads generally but no experience of this particular model. Their sheepskin feel nice, I personally prefer the very soft plush velour but it probably depends on the phones in question as to which is best.

 

[watchnerd]

I can vouch for dekoni pads generally but no experience of this particular model. Their sheepskin feel nice, I personally prefer the very soft plush velour but it probably depends on the phones in question as to which is best.

This comparison chart is interesting:

 

[Jimbob54]

This comparison chart is interesting:

If the stock pads on the 400i are the same as the 4xx (pleather outside and in, felt on the ring that touches the head) then the hybrid will be closest in terms of construction so no surprise that matches close to stock. All velour I imagine absorbs the most of the bass so no surprise there- easily bumped back up in EQ I suppose- but lets not go there!

If you're looking for cooler but least change in sound, have to think solid sheepskin?

 

[watchnerd]

If the stock pads on the 400i are the same as the 4xx (pleather outside and in, felt on the ring that touches the head) then the hybrid will be closest in terms of construction so no surprise that matches close to stock. All velour I imagine absorbs the most of the bass so no surprise there- easily bumped back up in EQ I suppose- but lets not go there!

If you're looking for cooler but least change in sound, have to think solid sheepskin?

Yes, their graphs show that regarding the hybrids and this is their description:

"Our Hybrid pads, which are sealed with solid Sheepskin on the outside face, neutral Fenestrated Sheepskin on the inner face, and comfortable with Velour on the face facing your face, measured with practically no deviation from the stock pads, but all the construction materials (including the memory foam inside) have received a premium upgrade for better comfort and durability."

 

[watchnerd]

If you're looking for cooler but least change in sound, have to think solid sheepskin?

Possibly, unless the hybrid is also a little cooler than stock because it doesn't use pleather.

 

[Robbo99999]

I think there's something wrong with my HE4XX and I wanted to pick some peoples brains on it. I bought it recently the last couple of weeks, and I've not been using it loads as I've still had better results with my K702, but revisited the HE4XX EQ today, and I think the HE4XX is giving me tinnitus (which I'm not susceptible to, and I don't listen loud). When I first got them couple of weeks ago the same thing happened, but I assumed it was something in my room making the high pitched tone or a temporary problem with my ear....I stopped using the HE4XX the last week and the tinnitus went away....today I start messing with the HE4XX and it's come back. So I think the HE4XX is causing it. Another thing that makes me think it's the HE4XX is that there is some strange but subtle "distortion" particularly around female vocals and high hats, where there seems to be additional higher pitched ringing surrounding or even preceding those sounds, and it's that ringing that is the same pitch as this tinnitus I'm experiencing. I think there's something wrong with my HE4XX and it's throwing out some dangerous tones, or that's just the way they are.....I'm not sure. I'm also not doing silly boosting of high frequencies in my EQ's, so it's not that, and I even tested not boosting the treble dip at 5500Hz to see if there was something associated with a sharp boost there that was causing distortion & my tinnitus.......I even tried EQ's that only boosted the bass by half my original boost value to see if bass boost was making the HE4XX throw out some weird high pitched distortion. Here's one of my EQ's just so you can see the Frequency Response of the original stock HE4XX as well as a bit more context for my EQ's, it's almost the same model of headphone as the HE400i, hence me posting in this thread, just some different pads and maybe some other subtle changes:

I gotta say it's really not been a pleasant experience with this headphone because of this discovery of mine. By the way I was listening to my K702 most of the day today playing some computer games and listening to some music, and it was only after donning the HE4XX for a 2 minute listening test that I noticed the tinnitus came back, so I really think this is the HE4XX fault.

EDIT: one more additional thought, this headphone in stock format has a very grainy holographic type sound (first thing that came into my head as soon as I heard it), which is especially noticeable at high volumes. I say high volumes because I flipped between EQ's using EqualiserAPO by turning one off & turning the other on.....so there's a brief period where the headphone is playing in it's stock un'EQd format at an extra 8dB due to no negative preamp.....and this is when I noticed this very grainy holographic type sound of this headphone when stock at loud volumes. An additional point to help diagnose the issue perhaps.

EDIT #2: a lot of the graininess is removed with the Harman EQ's, but still some persists.....if this helps narrow down the problem.

 

[Jimbob54]

I think there's something wrong with my HE4XX and I wanted to pick some peoples brains on it. I bought it recently the last couple of weeks, and I've not been using it loads as I've still had better results with my K702, but revisited the HE4XX EQ today, and I think the HE4XX is giving me tinnitus (which I'm not susceptible to, and I don't listen loud). When I first got them couple of weeks ago the same thing happened, but I assumed it was something in my room making the high pitched tone or a temporary problem with my ear....I stopped using the HE4XX the last week and the tinnitus went away....today I start messing with the HE4XX and it's come back. So I think the HE4XX is causing it. Another thing that makes me think it's the HE4XX is that there is some strange but subtle "distortion" particularly around female vocals and high hats, where there seems to be additional higher pitched ringing surrounding or even preceding those sounds, and it's that ringing that is the same pitch as this tinnitus I'm experiencing. I think there's something wrong with my HE4XX and it's throwing out some dangerous tones, or that's just the way they are.....I'm not sure. I'm also not doing silly boosting of high frequencies in my EQ's, so it's not that, and I even tested not boosting the treble dip at 5500Hz to see if there was something associated with a sharp boost there that was causing distortion & my tinnitus.......I even tried EQ's that only boosted the bass by half my original boost value to see if bass boost was making the HE4XX throw out some weird high pitched distortion. Here's one of my EQ's just so you can see the Frequency Response of the original stock HE4XX as well as a bit more context for my EQ's, it's almost the same model of headphone as the HE400i, hence me posting in this thread, just some different pads and maybe some other subtle changes:
View attachment 106688
I gotta say it's really not been a pleasant experience with this headphone because of this discovery of mine. By the way I was listening to my K702 most of the day today playing some computer games and listening to some music, and it was only after donning the HE4XX for a 2 minute listening test that I noticed the tinnitus came back, so I really think this is the HE4XX fault.

EDIT: one more additional thought, this headphone in stock format has a very grainy holographic type sound (first thing that came into my head as soon as I heard it), which is especially noticeable at high volumes. I say high volumes because I flipped between EQ's using EqualiserAPO by turning one off & turning the other on.....so there's a brief period where the headphone is playing in it's stock un'EQd format at an extra 8dB due to no negative preamp.....and this is when I noticed this very grainy holographic type sound of this headphone when stock at loud volumes. An additional point to help diagnose the issue perhaps.

EDIT #2: a lot of the graininess is removed with the Harman EQ's, but still some persists.....if this helps narrow down the problem.

Not my favourite HP by a long stretch , but I wear mostly for gaming and no issues like this. When used for music, with or without EQ to roughly Harman, no issues. Send them back. Gut feel is you have them too loud as I think you would immediately hear some massive treble spike not shown in other measurements.

 

[Robbo99999]

Not my favourite HP by a long stretch , but I wear mostly for gaming and no issues like this. When used for music, with or without EQ to roughly Harman, no issues. Send them back. Gut feel is you have them too loud as I think you would immediately hear some massive treble spike not shown in other measurements.

Thanks. I might send them back, but it's a pain, it's imported from The States you see. I don't think I'm listening to them too loud because they felt at the same volume as my K702, and with my K702 I can easily hear sound from noises in the room, K702 is more open allowing more sound through from outside though. But yeah, if they're causing me issues and potentially damaging my hearing I certainly don't have a use for them, but I'm curious to see if I could get to the bottom of the problem.....it's either a defective HE4XX or they're all like this, or I've misdiagnosed the correlation between HE4XX and tinnitus, but I think that last point is quite unlikely though considering my description in my last post.

 

[Jimbob54]

Thanks. I might send them back, but it's a pain, it's imported from The States you see. I don't think I'm listening to them too loud because they felt at the same volume as my K702, and with my K702 I can easily hear sound from noises in the room, K702 is more open allowing more sound through from outside though. But yeah, if they're causing me issues and potentially damaging my hearing I certainly don't have a use for them, but I'm curious to see if I could get to the bottom of the problem.....it's either a defective HE4XX or they're all like this, or I've misdiagnosed the correlation between HE4XX and tinnitus, but I think that last point is quite unlikely though considering my description in my last post.

Is it both ears BTW? I doubt both drivers could have the same defect.

Other possibilities, you have a partial blockage /wax in one ear that the 4xx excites that others don't, or the physical fit /clamp is in some way causing a ringing. Unlikely.