Hifiman HE-6 Review (Headphone)

[devopsprodude]

I have Ananda and Sundara so will be testing those soon.

Excellent!

 

[amirm]

Some remarks:
Headphones should be comfortable. No word about it.

What was this then?

The large cups allowed it to instantly fit on my head with excellent comfort despite its above average weight.

I also provided the cup dimensions as an indication of potential comfort for you.

 

[amirm]

EQ for me, is a "BIG NO". EQ of 10 dB is like killing HP Amp's power by a factor of 10.

You don't need to EQ it in bass if you don't want. The rest doesn't matter. Max EQ was also 5 dB, not 10.

Regardless, if you are avoiding EQ, you are living in dark ages with headphones.

 

[amirm]

@amirm I have an HE6 and an RME ADI-2 DAC. Do you think there's any benefit to getting a Topping A90? (disregarding the preamp)

I could get comfortable loudness out of RME. So no, I would not go to A90 unless you listen louder than me which is doubtful.

 

[devopsprodude]

You don't need to EQ it in bass if you don't want. The rest doesn't matter. Max EQ was also 5 dB, not 10.

Regardless, if you are avoiding EQ, you are living in dark ages with headphones.

This!

 

[Racheski]

By design, these headphones are very inefficient compared to, well, just about everything.

Because of that, I believe your tests (at least, listening tests) should be done using a Monolith THX 887, not the RME ADI-2 headphone jack; and especially not on the lower powered ADI-2 DAC (vs. ADI-2 Pro). The RME can route XLR down the THX 887, so you can still keep it in the audio path for the configuration aspects.

And oh, I was driving it with Topping A90 which could drive it quite loud on high gain. I also tested it on RME ADI-2 DAC V2 and it too managed to drive it. So no, you don't need a power (speaker) amplifier to drive it. High performance amplifiers I have been recommending can mange it.

A90 did 4.8W @ 50 ohms vs. Mono 887 which did 3.7W @ 50 ohms. More power is unnecessary.

 

[frogmeat69]

 

[DivineCurrent]

I can't speak for the HE-6, but I can say the HE-500 (the old original one, not the 5XX or 560) is pretty amazing, especially with a pad swap and some EQ applied. I'm also hearing a 9 kHz peak on my HE-500 like the HE-6, but that is about it in terms of frequency response issues. It hits so many marks, and they sound so huge and spacious it's like a concert hall with the right music. And yeah it's heavy, but I did some mods on mine with the headband.

I also wonder if the HE-500 has the same or better technical performance to the old HE-6, considering they use a very similar driver and the 500 came out after the HE-6. No doubt the measured distortion here is probably similar, if these graphs from Innerfidelity are anything to go by.

Oh, and something else I forgot to mention, it seems these old Hifimans always had the polarity inverted as you can see on the impulse response. While modding my HE-500, I decided to swap the wires to reverse the polarity/phase back to where it should be. There's probably no audible difference, but something worth mentioning.

 

[Maiky76]

Hi,

Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF).
• The range above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo the boosts and preamp gain need to be carefully considered to avoid issues

Good L/R match.
Diffuse field target?

I have generated one EQ, the APO config files are attached.

Score no EQ: 77.1
Score Armirm: 75.4
Score with EQ: 80.7

hifiman he-6 APO EQ Score 96000Hz
March242021-133841

Preamp: -5.2 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 34.5 Hz Gain 5.13 dB Q 0.46
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1000 Hz Gain -2.4 dB Q 1.68
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2139 Hz Gain 5.5 dB Q 1.61
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4369 Hz Gain -4.46 dB Q 2.23
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 6730 Hz Gain 6 dB Q 3.44
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 12450 Hz Gain -7.07 dB Q 3.77

 

[Racheski]

Hi,

Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF).
• The range above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo the boosts and preamp gain need to be carefully considered to avoid issues

Good L/R match.
Diffuse field target?

I have generated one EQ, the APO config files are attached.

Score no EQ: 77.1
Score Armirm: 75.4
Score with EQ: 80.7

hifiman he-6 APO EQ Score 96000Hz
March242021-133841

Preamp: -5.2 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 34.5 Hz Gain 5.13 dB Q 0.46
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1000 Hz Gain -2.4 dB Q 1.68
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2139 Hz Gain 5.5 dB Q 1.61
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 4369 Hz Gain -4.46 dB Q 2.23
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 6730 Hz Gain 6 dB Q 3.44
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 12450 Hz Gain -7.07 dB Q 3.77

View attachment 120006

Is this the same calculation as the Preference Rating on Oratory1990's EQ sheets?

 

[Maiky76]

Is this the same calculation as the Preference Rating on Oratory1990's EQ sheets?
View attachment 120011

I don't not know what he is doing. If you point me towards his work I can have a look.
What I can tell you though, is that I use the Harman formula and my Matlab script has been calibrated against a commercially available SW.

 

[edahl]

Good to see Hifiman is doing well! Really wondering how the HE1000 v2 and se compares. Ordered an upgrade from my v1 to an HE1000se now, and really can't wait.

 

[qwerty88]

I also wonder if the HE-500 has the same or better technical performance to the old HE-6, considering they use a very similar driver and the 500 came out after the HE-6. No doubt the measured distortion here is probably similar, if these graphs from Innerfidelity are anything to go by.

Same magnet structure, but very different diaphragms due to different materials used for the respective conductive traces (HE-6: gold; HE-500: aluminium). Furthermore, Fang Bian mentioned that the HE-500 diaphragm had a different treatment than the HE-6's diaphragm. He didn't get into specifics of what type of treatment was used on the HE-500 diaphragm (or at least I couldn't find any from a quick google search).

 

[deafenears]

Soundstage has measurements of the HE6SE.

Looks similar to this.

 

[B4ICU]

Measurements above all? Seriously? (Deutschland über alles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied)
Especially with a speaker or HP.
What do they sound like? tell me what does it sound playing a piano, How real are the drums? any excitement, Was the sound live like, or soft and mild? What did you like about the sound, what you didn't...With HP, was the stage there, or it was all caged between your ears?
After you got a first runner on your accumulated tests, over so many, what does it sound compared to the best?
Not to say that HP and comfort are a match, that as a user, I'll give it a high rank on my testing a pair. They might sound out of this word, but if I am not comfortable with it, or it gets me sweaty or cause a pressure pain, it will not get back to my head ever!
Measurements:
It seems to be a ritual. A pattern of tests, dictated by the book (Amir's book?) that are performed and reported. Comments are all over the tests, than it gets a rating of all others of it's kind and stamped with a recommandation. Go or No Go.

I purchase a SONY CDP-X505ES CD player. Spec. were fantastic: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sony/cdp-x505es.shtml
If I need to put my money, where my word is, I bet it measured even better than it Spec's.
Sound...? compared to a TEAC VRDS-7 it wasn't a match. So, what the Spec. worth?
Be aware that your individual impression worth more than a say or spec's test.

 

[Veri]

Measurements above all? Seriously?
...
It seems to be a ritual. A pattern of tests, dictated by the book (Amir's book?) that are performed and reported. Comments are all over the tests, than it gets a rating of all others of it's kind and stamped with a recommandation. Go or No Go.

Erm. This is a measurements-first website, to outline any problems that stem from these tests. This is quite valuable if you want to have an objective look at something. If that's not your cup of tea, plenty of other places to go to....

 

[xema]

Amir vs Jaakkopasanen (measured by InnerFidelity):
View attachment 119826
PEQ profile by Amir (from my post #2 above):

Spoiler

Preamp: -5.4 dB
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 60 Hz Gain 5.0 dB Q 1.0
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 2000 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 1.5
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 4300 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 2.0
Filter 4: ON HS Fc 10000 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 1.0

PEQ profile by Jaakkopasanen (measured by InnerFidelity):

Spoiler

Preamp: -5.2 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 17 Hz Gain 3.6 dB Q 0.94
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 52 Hz Gain 2.6 dB Q 0.63
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2018 Hz Gain 5.3 dB Q 1.81
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 5940 Hz Gain -7.6 dB Q 3.81
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 20018 Hz Gain -9.3 dB Q 0.15
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 959 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 3.94
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 3155 Hz Gain -0.4 dB Q 1.67
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 4891 Hz Gain 3.2 dB Q 3.03
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 5546 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 7.50
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 8388 Hz Gain -1.8 dB Q 2.70

Oratory1990 didn't measure.

Jaakkopasanen's He6 could be broken...Amir's curve is more likely to be the normal He6. Cus I had one, it has a slightly bright mid-high.

 

[faheem]

Thank you Amir, look forward to the Sundara and Ananda reviews.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Measurements above all? Seriously? (Deutschland über alles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied)
Especially with a speaker or HP.
What do they sound like? tell me what does it sound playing a piano, How real are the drums? any excitement, Was the sound live like, or soft and mild? What did you like about the sound, what you didn't...With HP, was the stage there, or it was all caged between your ears?
After you got a first runner on your accumulated tests, over so many, what does it sound compared to the best?
Not to say that HP and comfort are a match, that as a user, I'll give it a high rank on my testing a pair. They might sound out of this word, but if I am not comfortable with it, or it gets me sweaty or cause a pressure pain, it will not get back to my head ever!
Measurements:
It seems to be a ritual. A pattern of tests, dictated by the book (Amir's book?) that are performed and reported. Comments are all over the tests, than it gets a rating of all others of it's kind and stamped with a recommandation. Go or No Go.

I purchase a SONY CDP-X505ES CD player. Spec. were fantastic: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sony/cdp-x505es.shtml
If I need to put my money, where my word is, I bet it measured even better than it Spec's.
Sound...? compared to a TEAC VRDS-7 it wasn't a match. So, what the Spec. worth?
Be aware that your individual impression worth more than a say or spec's test.

There are a lot of web sites where you can read about this sort of thing if you find it convincing.
This site is based on science and using known information and research both on things which are provable (most electronics) and some where preference a major factor so most people may tend to like the preference a significant minority may/will not.
I like the fact I can come here and find information based on knowledge rather than speculation.
This site is pretty well unique in being knowledge based rather than wild, and often irrational, speculation based but I do understand that the majority of people are not scientifically minded so may find it boring.

 

[manishex]

A word regarding EQ and power:
If any device is EQ'd by 3 dB, the Amp's dynamic range decrease by 3 dB (Half). So, if you had a 50W Amp's you remain with only 25W available.
If the same is EQ'd by 10 dB, the Amp's dynamic range decrease by 10 dB (1/10). So, if you had a 50W Amp's you remain with only 5W!
That's bad.
Now most EQ'd devices on this site are speakers and headphones.
The audio output of such device (speaker) is given by the sensitivity (SPL/m/w). In other words, how loud it sounds when checked on axis, at a 1m distance, when driven by 1W rms (2.83V@8ohms) in dB. So if you have a low sensitivity speaker (or HP), let's pick a Magnepan 1.6 with 86dB/w/m SPL, vs a Klipsch Forte-II with 99dB/w/m SPL, the 13dB difference is translated to x20 more power for the Magnepan 1.6.
If you would like to play the Magnepan 1.6 as loud as a Klipsch Forte-II at 5W you need a 200W power Amp playing at full trust.
If that would be EQ'd by 10dB, it would really crippled the Magnepan 1.6 to be driven by 20W only.
The very same is with the rested HP. It's sensitivity is the lowest, by far, among other HP in the market.
EQ is also not so good with THD and phase. It always sound inferior to NO EQ.
I used to own the SONY TA-E2000ESD pre Amp. with a 91 band parametric EQ, with precision Q and amp (0.1dB +/-). It always sounded more natural without it, than with! I think that EQ never been better than that, and still...Thanks, but no thanks.

This is why I get sad when I need to eq down more than 3db on the pregain. Tonality is better, but dynamics and such take a hit so I try to not force the harman curve too much. I have hard to drive headphones for which oratory eq recommends - 8db gain, ended up at tweaking it for an eq that's half as strong.