Hifiman Edition XS

[GM3]

Damn... I was looking up the prices for these but being in Canada, price is around 700cdn / 513US online, but as per original post, an aliexpress seller has them as low as $ 540 cdn / 400US, with free shipping...! Even with some brokerage fees, that's a pretty huge difference... The reviews seem highly positive, and I'm kinda tempted now, even though I rarely listen to my hifiman 400i + Schiit Modi + Topping A30 amp...

I'm really wondering, do you think;
1) Worth the upgrade vs 400i?
2) Topping A30 optimal? Seems to do fine with the above, but would it significantly hold the HMF Edition XS back?
3) Ali/hifiman risk? I originally had to return my hifiman 400i because one of the drivers rattled/distorted... But big $ difference...

 

[oceansize]

Damn... I was looking up the prices for these but being in Canada, price is around 700cdn / 513US online, but as per original post, aliexpress $ 540 cdn / 400US free shipping...! That's a pretty huge difference... The reviews seem highly positive, and I'm kinda tempted now, even though I rarely listen to my hifiman 400i + Schiit Modi + Topping A30 amp...

About to embark on 40 page reading, any advice as to purchase or not to purchase? What's a bit troubling, I originally had to return my hifiman 400i because one of the drivers rattled a little, so when going ali..... That would suck.

Be careful who you're buying off on Ali - I tried to register mine with Hifiman for warranty and they wouldn't accept it as they came through an unregistered seller. Having said that, I've had them about a year and they're still working well and still sound very good. UK prices are currently about £480, I think I paid approx £335 a year ago, so yeah, big saving... but I did see them going for approx £350 from UK seller at some point last year. I've no idea why they're currently fetching such a high price.

 

[GM3]

Be careful who you're buying off on Ali - I tried to register mine with Hifiman for warranty and they wouldn't accept it as they came through an unregistered seller. Having said that, I've had them about a year and they're still working well and still sound very good. UK prices are currently about £480, I think I paid approx £335 a year ago, so yeah, big saving... but I did see them going for approx £350 from UK seller at some point last year. I've no idea why they're currently fetching such a high price.

Thanks yeah that's the typical deal with buying 'outside' the typical distribution network...

I think I'll hold off... I like the 400i for what they are, but their signature sound is a bit bothersome, it improves with EQ, but for some reason I'm never entirely pleased when using EQ: If I fully EQ given reverse-EQ it never sounds quite right to me, and when going half measure (1/2 EQ 'fix'), then it sounds better, but only half solves the issue; better than stock, but still not perfect. The 7k spike / harshness, imho their biggest weakness... Detail/resolution and EQ'd bass are great, so quite good overall, but not perfect by any means. Comfort/weight also could be better.

Often more inclined to pick up and listen to AKG Q701, even if detail/resolution isn't nearly as good, nor as good bass, etc., the sound signature and overall weight comfort are great, like these a lot. And the more I read this thread, the more I feel like it would be a little bit more of the same story with XS, and given the high price in Canada, or grey market, and that now they're 1 year old, maybe an upcoming model does better? Seems more smooth, but increased treble, slightly recessed mids, scares me a little...

I've been somewhat holding out for an upgrade for some time now, had considered the Focal Elex think they were, Edition X, think it was the Koss Drop 95X, etc., hoping something around the $500 mark would just 'work' as is; like a great performer that doesn't need EQ and does everything well. Seems like it's always getting closer, XS quite close, but just short enough not to pull the trigger... :\

Like 550cdn from canada, they'd be ordered already, 600 probably, but 700..... Feels too expensive.. If I recall, when I bought the 400i they were at like 1/2 price from what they had sold, who knows if XS also on the point of getting a price drop due to new product?

[edit3?] Think I'll probably keep an eye open for price drop/sale, or just buy from Ali? LOL Reading this thread, seems like a clear upgrade from 400i, just wonder how much the sound signature (FR) would bother me... Once listened to the Sennheiser 650, most disappointing headphone ever for me! But yeah the Q701 isn't perfectly neutral either, and doesn't bother me one bit, probably the XS would be fine too...

They benefit from EQ for sure! that missing midrange is bothersome, Hollow Sounding is as good a description I could have given, I let someone(s-plural) come up with a valid frequency response curve to determine correct EQ values, but still by ear put it at about 1500Hz to 2.2kHz @ 2 or 3dB. Also there is a something at about 5.5kHz (very approx.) that can shout a tiny bit on some recordings specially with my Chord Mojo. With Hugo2, because of greater clarity it is less of an issue.

Or maybe not... :\

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I can not remember posting that on ASR, but I did on Headfi.
When I wrote that, the EDXS was not available anywhere outside China, that's where I got mine from, in its early days.
The headphones not being available, meant that no measurements were available either at the time, from any outlets. So my review was done by ear, subjectively.
I was vindicated later on, when measurements did become available, and yes for sure the lack of energy at around 1.5K and the peak at around 5.5k were detected by microphones.
At any rate, I believe I did mention somewhere that the headphones were listenable right out of box, but a little EQ helps.
I have sold mine now, but have very good memories of the EDXS, they were truly fantastic at the price and well beyond.
Enjoy yours.

 

[Phoney]

Thanks yeah that's the typical deal with buying 'outside' the typical distribution network...

I think I'll hold off... I like the 400i for what they are, but their signature sound is a bit bothersome, it improves with EQ, but for some reason I'm never entirely pleased when using EQ: If I fully EQ given reverse-EQ it never sounds quite right to me, and when going half measure (1/2 EQ 'fix'), then it sounds better, but only half solves the issue; better than stock, but still not perfect. The 7k spike / harshness, imho their biggest weakness... Detail/resolution and EQ'd bass are great, so quite good overall, but not perfect by any means. Comfort/weight also could be better.

Often more inclined to pick up and listen to AKG Q701, even if detail/resolution isn't nearly as good, nor as good bass, etc., the sound signature and overall weight comfort are great, like these a lot. And the more I read this thread, the more I feel like it would be a little bit more of the same story with XS, and given the high price in Canada, or grey market, and that now they're 1 year old, maybe an upcoming model does better? Seems more smooth, but increased treble, slightly recessed mids, scares me a little...

I've been somewhat holding out for an upgrade for some time now, had considered the Focal Elex think they were, Edition X, think it was the Koss Drop 95X, etc., hoping something around the $500 mark would just 'work' as is; like a great performer that doesn't need EQ and does everything well. Seems like it's always getting closer, XS quite close, but just short enough not to pull the trigger... :\

Like 550cdn from canada, they'd be ordered already, 600 probably, but 700..... Feels too expensive.. If I recall, when I bought the 400i they were at like 1/2 price from what they had sold, who knows if XS also on the point of getting a price drop due to new product?

[edit3?] Think I'll probably keep an eye open for price drop/sale, or just buy from Ali? LOL Reading this thread, seems like a clear upgrade from 400i, just wonder how much the sound signature (FR) would bother me... Once listened to the Sennheiser 650, most disappointing headphone ever for me! But yeah the Q701 isn't perfectly neutral either, and doesn't bother me one bit, probably the XS would be fine too...


Or maybe not... :\

It's difficult to find any headphone for $500 or less which doesn't benefit from EQ. That doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. These have a typical Hifiman tonality which many actually enjoy without EQ. I would however recommend you to try EQ. Very few regret it.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

It's difficult to find any headphone for $500 or less which doesn't benefit from EQ. That doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. These have a typical Hifiman tonality which many actually enjoy without EQ. I would however recommend you to try EQ. Very few regret it.

I now enjoy my Audeze LCD-XC 21 which costs $1300.
It requires far more EQ than EDXS ever did, but yet, on some classical recordings, I switch EQ off.

 

[GM3]

Yeah as I didn't follow headphone scene for a while, the more I read the more I'm thinking the EDXS might be a *very* significant upgrade to 400i... Reading the graphs is hard; as in impossible for me to know how it would sound given graph, but just from the headphone tech and evolution, the original 2014 400i is quite a way back, keep reading about the stealth magnet, which the 2020 400i version has, there was also the 2014 Sundara which I remember reading was a clear, albeit maybe not revolutionary, upgrade to the 400i, but yeah just looking at iterations and tech, seems to me now that the old 400i should be clearly and significantly outclassed by the XS... Not to mention that the XS is also inheriting from the larger driver HE1000 family, so again the old 400i should be significantly outclassed..

Spoiler: HFM evo tree

For sound signature... I don't think I'm too sensitive or picky, and reading comments about AKG Q701 or 400i, many of the critiques (ex; Q701 being 'spikey' etc.) don't seem to bother me, but I think the 400i is as I was saying a bit over my tolerance limit per se, which seems to confirm's Amir's review. To me the EDXS graphs seemed a bit similar (spiky & dips); https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-5/graph#29106/7903/353 which was a bit troubling, but yeah seems like the EDXS are far more listenable out of the box.

Lots of YT reviews describe the XS as the best $500 headphone... So looks like even at 500 they should be a good pick. Only question now would be
- Ali vs full blown retail from Canada [edit] pretty sure Canada, due to QA/reliability/warranty..
- maybe looking if there's some worthy competitors..
- waiting for the next one... But looking at the tree, release dates, seems almost perfectly in my price point, and might be a while.. [edit] expensive, but appears that in this case, you do get what you pay for so....

[edit] For the older Topping A30, I have a feeling it would be ok... Not very hard to drive, other 1600mW @32 recommended, and original A30 rated 1551mW, but who knows if an upgrade might also be a possibility..

Spoiler: Topping A30 specs

The recommended load impedance range: 16-600Ω
Maximum output power:
1551mW x 2 (PO = Hi, 6.35 headphone port, RL = 32Ω, THD + N = 1%)
291mW x 2 (PO = Hi, 6.35 headphone jack, RL = 300Ω, THD + N = 1%)
152mW x 2 (PO = Hi, 6.35 headphone jack, RL = 600Ω, THD + N = 1%)
757mW x 2 (PO = Hi, 3.5 headphone jack, RL = 32Ω, THD + N = 1%)
258mW x 2 (PO = Hi, 3.5 headphone jack, RL = 300Ω, THD + N = 1%)
143mW x 2 (PO = Hi, 3.5 headphone jack, RL = 600Ω, THD + N = 1%)

The output voltage swing:26.6Vpp
Typical Distortion (@ 1kHz) :
0.0019% (RL = 32Ω, G = 0dB, IN = 0.5Vrms)
0.0003% (RL = 300Ω, G = 9dB, IN = 0.5Vrms)
0.0006% (RL = 600Ω, G = 18dB, IN = 0.5Vrms)

Frequency response: 10 - 200kHz

Input Sensitivity:
10.0Vrms (PO = Hi, G = 0dB)
3.3Vrms (PO = Hi, G = 9dB)
1.2Vrms (PO = Hi, G = 18dB)

Bottom noise (A-weighted):
2.2uV (G = 0dB, RL = 32Ω)
3.2uV (G = 9dB, RL = 32Ω)
8.2uV (G = 18dB, RL = 32Ω)
Gain : 0dB / 9dB / 18dB

Signal to noise ratio:
126dB (PO = Hi, G = 0dB)
121dB (PO = Hi, G = 9dB)
111dB (PO = Hi, G = 18dB)

 

[arrow0309]

It's difficult to find any headphone for $500 or less which doesn't benefit from EQ. That doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. These have a typical Hifiman tonality which many actually enjoy without EQ. I would however recommend you to try EQ. Very few regret it.

Hifiman Edition XS.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[bodhi]

Yeah as I didn't follow headphone scene for a while, the more I read the more I'm thinking the EDXS might be a *very* significant upgrade to 400i...

Depends what you consider significant. I have had the Edition XS, upgraded that to LDC-X and recently got Sundara. I would be happy with any of them but in my opinion the XS would take last place in sound quality, after EQ. For 500€ I'd consider Ollo S5X: it has great neutral tonality out of the box and the build quality is way better than XS. It's not planar though if that's what you need.

Anyways, to get a significant upgrade after already a good headphone you need to have been indoctrinated quite a bit to really appreciate the differences and know what you want. Then there is EQ which levels out the differences even more.

For the older Topping A30, I have a feeling it would be ok...

Yes.

 

[poxymoron]

Depends what you consider significant. I have had the Edition XS, upgraded that to LDC-X and recently got Sundara. I would be happy with any of them but in my opinion the XS would take last place in sound quality, after EQ. For 500€ I'd consider Ollo S5X: it has great neutral tonality out of the box and the build quality is way better than XS. It's not planar though if that's what you need.

Anyways, to get a significant upgrade after already a good headphone you need to have been indoctrinated quite a bit to really appreciate the differences and know what you want. Then there is EQ which levels out the differences even more.



Yes.

Thanks for the heads up on the Ollo S5X. One I'd never heard of before and it impressed the guys at DIY-Audio-Heaven:

S5X (1.0)

back to OLLO Audioback to measurementshome published: Feb-03-2023, updated Feb-25-2023 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons fl…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

I think I'll hold of on the XS until I hear more about the Ollos. Hifiman build quality concerns me.

 

[GM3]

Depends what you consider significant. [...] Anyways, to get a significant upgrade after already a good headphone you need to have been indoctrinated quite a bit to really appreciate the differences and know what you want. Then there is EQ which levels out the differences even more.

Spoiler: Rambling

The opposite of this: "just got my Hifiman Edition XS [...] listened to it, can't tell any music 'upgrade' compared to my 8 year old $200 Sennheiser HD598. Am I deaf?" But yeah learned to play music as a kid, still do as a hobby, and do like good sound... Tinkered a bit with different speakers, built a few DIY pairs. Guilty of owning too many headphones over the years, including 598.

So yeah I'd hope at this point that I could appreciate any improvement EDXS would offer over 400i for instance... Think there's a drastic difference between 598, Q701 and 400i. Tonality aside, it's really realism; 598/Q701; ex; you'll hear a coarse cello. 400i, you'll hear the body vibrate, bow rubbing against the strings, etc. Like an image with better resolution. Then there's dynamics; drums, bass and all. Anyway, 598 are incredibly light & comfortable, but very hard to listen to 'actively' because they don't have much resolution... Like looking at a blurry photo.

Simply; the same sort of 'significant' change you would get from going going from a $400 Adam T5V (Sennheiser 598?) to $1k A5X (HFM 400i?) to $3k Focal Solo6 Be (EDXS?)?

For 500€ I'd consider Ollo S5X: it has great neutral tonality out of the box and the build quality is way better than XS. It's not planar though if that's what you need.

First time I've heard of them. There's a reseller in Canada though, 600cdn/440US, very good price vs 500€ (418€). But yeah dynamic vs planar... I could understand that for mixing flat FR would be the priority, but I'm not sure if that's what I'm after?

I sure do like the dynamics of planar, the 'cleanness', clarity, resolution... With the HFM, I half know what I'm getting, the diy review does seem very positive, albeit a few caveats, they really seem very good!

 

[GM3]

Yeah actually after bit more reading, seriously thinking of grabbing the Ollos There's a comparison with XS here;
https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...c-studio-headphones-immersive-production.html
and with the diy measurements, really seems to be apples and oranges in terms of accuracy (FR) with the EDXS being far more 400i-like with peaks & dips, with recessed mids, excessive excess treble, where the Ollo as you've mentioned is just much better out of the bucks. Even 100 bucks cheaper. Not a huge fan of the wood, cable and dynamic driver, but hey, if the performance is there, that's what really matters in the end; 5 year warranty, serviceable parts, really looks like a winner! Thanks a lot for the suggestion!

Think I'll do a bit more research but yeah pretty sure it's decided at this point. Fast forward a bit; some reviews had some mentions of planar vs dynamic detail/resolution, but other reviews and comments seem to indicate that they have plenty of detail, ex;

Spoiler: comments from a review

Wouter De Smedt - 8 days ago
@the Honest Audiophile My initial impression was one of underwhelm. These headphones are real cool cats, no unnecessary excitement or exaggeration in them. But after listening to some music I realized how revealing and brutally honest these are. I started to hear fader and eq moves, compression, tape crunch, distortion and even mistakes I never noticed before. It really gives a lot of information, sonically and musically, and I was especially impressed by how well I started to hear the sound imparted by all the elements of the recording process - mics, room acoustics in the recording, mixing decisions, the sonic qualities of the mixing desk and recording medium. Impressive stuff, but most of all it tells me I can genuinely trust this headphone during mixing. And one last thing - it really makes it very obvious why some recordings just sound good and others don't, no matter the decade in which they were produced.

the Honest Audiophile 8 days ago (edited)
@Wouter De Smedt 100% agree. So crazy how revealing and accurate the S5X are. Thank you for the impressions.

So yeah looks like a very solid performer, and given that they seem to address my worries about the Edition XS, at this point seems like the clear winner for me! Thanks again!

 

[IAtaman]

For the older Topping A30, I have a feeling it would be ok... Not very hard to drive, other 1600mW @32 recommended, and original A30 rated 1551mW, but who knows if an upgrade might

You will be absolutely fine. I have A30, I rarely pass 14:00 on the volume control in Medium gain when I am using the Edition XS.

 

[bodhi]

Simply; the same sort of 'significant' change you would get from going going from a $400 Adam T5V (Sennheiser 598?) to $1k A5X (HFM 400i?) to $3k Focal Solo6 Be (EDXS?)?

Most important thing for price-conscious hifi buyer is diminishing returns. The curve is different with speakers as you need bigger speakers to get more low frequency extension. In your examples the Focals would be a huge upgrade as they reach way lower than the Adams. I don't think it's easy to get as big upgrade to your current Hifiman.

With planars I think Sundara is so good that it's where diminishing returns really begin. At least 400SE is said to be almost as good, maybe 400i is also? In that case you might already be in tough place if you want significant upgrade.

I sure do like the dynamics of planar, the 'cleanness', clarity, resolution... With the HFM, I half know what I'm getting, the diy review does seem very positive, albeit a few caveats, they really seem very good!

I think the Ollo will give you plenty of resolution and cleanliness. Excellent bass as well if not exactly as good as with good planar (just compared it with my LCD-X). Another personal anecdote is that I was almost ready to get Focal Clear MG to serve as my "last" dynamic headphone but after Ollo Clear is off the table.

 

[GM3]

Most important thing for price-conscious hifi buyer is diminishing returns. The curve is different with speakers as you need bigger speakers to get more low frequency extension. In your examples the Focals would be a huge upgrade as they reach way lower than the Adams. I don't think it's easy to get as big upgrade to your current Hifiman.

With planars I think Sundara is so good that it's where diminishing returns really begin. At least 400SE is said to be almost as good, maybe 400i is also? In that case you might already be in tough place if you want significant upgrade.

Yeah the 400i is a sort of weird monster... Armin did a great job on the review, looking at my own FR EQ curve, it's very close to his, albeit about 1/2 dB correction (ex 6dB peak = 3dB cut). Resolution, detail, bass, all great, but also it also feels like it's just not entirely there... Bit like it just never sounds entirely 'right'...

If I put on the ~<$200 AKG Q701 I can just enjoy the music; lack of resolution is a downside, but it doesn't feel 'off'. 400i; way more detailed, better bass, etc., but all too often something which brings me to open the EQ settings and then you're not just listening to music anymore.. the Honest Audiophile also describes something similar with the Sundara; almost like I'd describe the EQ'd 400i; Not exactly as he says; don't think it sounds 'artificial' or 'electric' exactly, just... off in some way..? Harshness? Distortion? 'Graininess'? I guess you could say just something that doesn't sound entirely natural...

I think the Ollo will give you plenty of resolution and cleanliness. Excellent bass as well if not exactly as good as with good planar (just compared it with my LCD-X). Another personal anecdote is that I was almost ready to get Focal Clear MG to serve as my "last" dynamic headphone but after Ollo Clear is off the table.

Nice!! Hope so too!

 

[bodhi]

If I put on the ~<$200 AKG Q701 I can just enjoy the music; lack of resolution is a downside, but it doesn't feel 'off'. 400i; way more detailed, better bass, etc., but all too often something which brings me to open the EQ settings and then you're not just listening to music anymore.. the Honest Audiophile also describes something similar with the Sundara; almost like I'd describe the EQ'd 400i; Not exactly as he says; don't think it sounds 'artificial' or 'electric' exactly, just... off in some way..? Harshness? Distortion? 'Graininess'? I guess you could say just something that doesn't sound entirely natural...

I rate those AKGs (I have the 712 though) in the same mid tier that are perfectly good headphones clearly lack something that exists in the higher tiers. I guess they are average in a good way, there is nothing in the presentation that irritates or captures your attention. I use my HD600 for that specific reason if I need to work on something that requires tight focus.

BTW the Sundara was supposed to be my first great headphone but the store just got couple brand new Edition XSs and I got those instead. I think almost everyone would do the same if doing only short comparison of the two. XS just has more of everything, which of course can also start to get on your nerves after longer exposure, which happened to me.

 

[arnea]

I've now used my XS for two months and recently started to notice some crackle sound in left cup. Switched cables left to right, switched amps, the crackle sound is always in left cup. Not often, but sometimes several times in a row. Usually I hear it when I've been in one position for long time and then lean forward or backward in my chair. At first I thought that something is wrong with the cable because it swings heavily during those moves but now it has also happened when I do not move.

So what is your opinion - do I have defective cup? I haven't contacted the seller (local shop) yet, because it takes long time to hear the crackle and I might have difficulties proving them that something is wrong at all. I also registered them with Hifiman when I got them, but I don't want to be without headphones for long time.

 

[Blorg]

@arnea- I'd take off the pads and see if you can see anything stuck in there, like a hair. It's possibly just defective but sometimes it's something that physically got in there and removing it will fix.

 

[arnea]

@arnea- I'd take off the pads and see if you can see anything stuck in there, like a hair. It's possibly just defective but sometimes it's something that physically got in there and removing it will fix.

Good idea. Is there any description/pictures how to remove the pads?

 

[arnea]

Ok, already found it in the manual. Removed the pad but didn't notice anything unusal.