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Hifiman Edition XS

Veri

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With the cost of cable, you are fast reaching the price of a used Mojo.
Hardly. There are plenty of sanely priced cables out there. Don't have to buy some single crystal copper mumbo jumbo.
 

Ken Tajalli

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Hardly. There are plenty of sanely priced cables out there. Don't have to buy some single crystal copper mumbo jumbo.
£120 for E1DA + £30 for balanced cable
A used Mojo 1st gen. goes for less than £200 on eBay regularly .
 

oceansize

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Would the K5 Pro ESS be sufficient? Would hate to buy these and discover the volume is low…
I have the original version of the K5 Pro and it drives the XS with ease... plenty of juice left way beyond reasonable listening levels.
 

vco1

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I have the original version of the K5 Pro and it drives the XS with ease... plenty of juice left way beyond reasonable listening levels.
Perhaps a silly question, but doesn't this also depend on the (level of the ) source? I mean, all my ripped cd's from before the 00's (or 90's?) are way softer than modern day music (since the loudness war).
 

oceansize

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Perhaps a silly question, but doesn't this also depend on the (level of the ) source? I mean, all my ripped cd's from before the 00's (or 90's?) are way softer than modern day music (since the loudness war).
There's still plenty of reserve left with the K5 Pro. Mine is on the medium gain setting and the volume knob is generally at the approx 11 o'clock position and might make it up to 12 o'clock for pre mid 90s CDs or for quieter acoustic music. It's really not an issue for me.
 

vco1

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There's still plenty of reserve left with the K5 Pro. Mine is on the medium gain setting and the volume knob is generally at the approx 11 o'clock position and might make it up to 12 o'clock for pre mid 90s CDs or for quieter acoustic music. It's really not an issue for me.
I probably wasn't clear enough. My remark was a general one. Not specifically aimed at the K5 Pro.
 

oceansize

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I probably wasn't clear enough. My remark was a general one. Not specifically aimed at the K5 Pro.
It's still a non-issue. If you still have a CD player and amp, play one of your 80s CDs and then one of your "loudness war" CDs... you might decide to crank the amp's volume a bit for the earlier CD, but they're still within the same order of magnitude volume-wise.
 

Ken Tajalli

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Perhaps a silly question, but doesn't this also depend on the (level of the ) source? I mean, all my ripped cd's from before the 00's (or 90's?) are way softer than modern day music (since the loudness war).
On your playback software, try to engage "peak normalize". Some software players, can scan your library for peaks, then allocate a preamp level to individual tracks.
This means that every track gets amplified or reduced to make sure its peaks are around the zero level.
 

Phoney

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They are good for sure.
But, power output is barely enough (single ended is too weak), and connected to a phone, they would drain the phone too fast.
If it was me, I get a decent used Mojo first gen.
It has the power, it is rechargeable, it has the sound quality, built like a tank.
Just make sure the battery is in good condition.
In UK, they go for no more than £200.
Mojo has a slightly warm sound, that calms down the slightly energetic treble of EDXS.
If you have the money, and feeling daring, then Mojo2 it is! the bass definition through EDXS alone will melt your heart.
At £400.
At £100 mark, you won't get sound quality and the power you need in one package.

What do you base your assumption on, that the single ended is too weak? My Qudelix 5k did fine with Arya v2, which is even harder to drive. And what do you mean by "at £100 mark you won't get sound quality"? I don't think any of those Mojos has any random magic in them that will defy the laws of physics.
 
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Ken Tajalli

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What do you base your assumption on, that the single ended is too weak?
On a review here on ASR, the balanced managed to output 200mW before clipping , that is barely enough. The single ended at most likely quarter of the power is not going to be enough for an EDXS.
My Qudelix 5k did fine with Arya v2, which is even harder to drive. And what do you mean by "at £100 mark you won't get sound quality"?
And power output! please quote me properly.
I don't think any of those Mojos has any random magic which defies the laws of physics in them.
Well they have the Mojo to drive the EDXS with enough power, and sound quality is right up there with the absolute best!
Tank like case, dependable, rechargeable, small enough . . . . all for a few quids over the price of an ED1A balanced and a new balanced cable.
Did I mention the magic? No I don't think I did! because there is none.
Now if anything I said, defies the laws of physics, then sorry Scotty, my bad. :)
 
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Phoney

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On a review here on ASR, the balanced managed to output 200mW before clipping , that is barely enough. The single ended at most likely quarter of the power is not going to be enough for an EDXS.

And power output! please quote me properly.

Well they have the Mojo to drive the EDXS with enough power and sound quality is right up there with the absolute best!
Tank like case, dependable, rechargeable, small enough . . . . all for a few quids over the price of an ED1A balanced and a new balanced cable.
Did I mention the magic? No I don't think I did! because there is none.
Now if anything I said, defies the laws of physics, then sorry Scotty, my bad. :)

What do you mean by "sound quality" in an amp? The single ended E1DA 9038D outputs 155mW in 32ohm (about 125mw in 18 ohm), which is enough to reach a peak level of 113db on the Edition XS. If you listen at 80db, you will have 33db of headroom.
 

Ken Tajalli

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What do you mean by "sound quality" in an amp? The single ended E1DA 9038D outputs 155mW in 32ohm (about 125mw in 18 ohm), which is enough to reach a peak level of 113db on the Edition XS. If you listen at 80db, you will have 33db of headroom.
On paper yes, with test tones at 0dBFS..
But those who have used the EDXS, have reported that more power is needed.
Specially if you EQ the bass up.
I don't believe the quoted sensitivity of the EDXS. I have one, and on my Hugo2 (700mW) I almost need to be at full volume on certain tracks.
E1DA has been reported to be excellent, and I go with that, but it is a dongle, it drains the phone battery. Its power output does not match that of the Mojo.
The sound quality at best is on a par with Mojo.
So I suggested it.
Now if there is some other issues you may have about the Mojo, they are out of place here.
- Mojo sound quality is better than your 5K, on a par with E1DA at least.
- It has about 500mW output power.
- It is rechargeable, not needing the phone battery.
- No balanced cable purchase is necessary.
- On ebay, I saw one today for £179.
All the above, just flew by you?
 

Veri

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The elephant in the room is the notorious battery issues on older Mojos though. You say "Just make sure the battery is in good condition" but how would you even know that before buying. Getting it replaced by Chord is not cheap.
 

Ken Tajalli

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The elephant in the room is the notorious battery issues on older Mojos though. You say "Just make sure the battery is in good condition" but how would you even know that before buying. Getting it replaced by Chord is not cheap.
By asking the seller on eBay before purchase - and testing it when it arrives.
If lacking, send it back or ask for a discount.
Batteries are available for $25 or so from AliExpress. I have used two, both lasted about 7 hours.
Chord UK replaced one for me for £40.
We have had a few Mojos, but I have sold the lot. We got Hugo2's now.
 

Veri

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Batteries are available for $25 or so from AliExpress. I have used two, both lasted about 7 hours.
Chord UK replaced one for me for £40.
That's not too bad, although I suppose you're UK based right. Where I'm at I'm sure it would end up costlier, especially when the 2 year warranty is over.
 

Ken Tajalli

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That's not too bad, although I suppose you're UK based right. Where I'm at I'm sure it would end up costlier, especially when the 2 year warranty is over.
I got this one:
It is down to less than £10 now.
On USB, I got 7hrs and more, on optical you get more.
At any rate, when you buy used, there is no warranty!
But, Mojos have had a good reputation regarding dependability.
 

Jimbob54

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They are good for sure.
But, power output is barely enough (single ended is too weak), and connected to a phone, they would drain the phone too fast.
If it was me, I get a decent used Mojo first gen.
It has the power, it is rechargeable, it has the sound quality, built like a tank.
Just make sure the battery is in good condition.
In UK, they go for no more than £200.
Mojo has a slightly warm sound, that calms down the slightly energetic treble of EDXS.
If you have the money, and feeling daring, then Mojo2 it is! the bass definition through EDXS alone will melt your heart.
At £400.
At £100 mark, you won't get sound quality and the power you need in one package.
I can only offer anecdotal evidence so take with whatever salt you need. I dont tend to use dongles for OE headphones but just plugged my EDXS into my 9038D, took all the volume limits off, replay gain etc and the device at -5dB was louder than I would want it. This is powered from my phone. The balanced 9038S would obviously have more headroom but would require a new cable like you say. Sounds just fine to me - but too loud.

Now, a few obvious points:

1. The EDXS arent exactly office/ commute friendly due to leakage in and out, plus the size and dont fold and a bit fragile- so not really portable
2. The Mojo (at a decent price IF the battery is OK 2nd hand) is a far better solution for using at a desk/ on a train with a table etc but not better for walking/ standing due to size and weight. Needs a murse.
3. The E1DA dongles for sure hammer your phone battery. At a desk you could get an adapter to charge the phone (mains or a battery pack) as you play the music (if your android phone is compatible- many arent)- but again, not exactly pocket friendly or good for actually moving around.
 

Ken Tajalli

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I can only offer anecdotal evidence so take with whatever salt you need. I dont tend to use dongles for OE headphones but just plugged my EDXS into my 9038D, took all the volume limits off, replay gain etc and the device at -5dB was louder than I would want it. This is powered from my phone. The balanced 9038S would obviously have more headroom but would require a new cable like you say. Sounds just fine to me - but too loud.

Now, a few obvious points:

1. The EDXS arent exactly office/ commute friendly due to leakage in and out, plus the size and dont fold and a bit fragile- so not really portable
2. The Mojo (at a decent price IF the battery is OK 2nd hand) is a far better solution for using at a desk/ on a train with a table etc but not better for walking/ standing due to size and weight. Needs a murse.
3. The E1DA dongles for sure hammer your phone battery. At a desk you could get an adapter to charge the phone (mains or a battery pack) as you play the music (if your android phone is compatible- many arent)- but again, not exactly pocket friendly or good for actually moving around.
Good points!
But sometimes, as I do, I just want to chill out in a corner, with my phone and EDXS and hugo2. Mojo, if not strapped to the phone, does fit inside a pocket.
Yes, planes, trains & jogging are not for EDXS.
But if I was to choose a DAC amp for stationery EDXS, I could get a desktop model. My money would go much further.
Some tracks, Classical specially, are not compressed to the hilt, so you need extra power in reserve. Also If you EQ up the bass.
Perhaps 150mW can make the EDXS boogie to some pop and rock tracks, but it is going to be at the edge of their capability.
Anyways, I never knocked the quality of E1DA, I am sure it is excellent.
But a decent Mojo at used prices is also in a league of its own.
Plenty are available these days.
 

Jimbob54

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Just a quick note. Sundara sounded great but the XS for me is on another level! Does anyone EQ it?
My pretty minimal EQ
1670622309922.png


Ignore the preamp of zero , you would need to add -2 to -3db of pre amp
 

Phoney

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On paper yes, with test tones at 0dBFS..
But those who have used the EDXS, have reported that more power is needed.
Specially if you EQ the bass up.
I don't believe the quoted sensitivity of the EDXS. I have one, and on my Hugo2 (700mW) I almost need to be at full volume on certain tracks.
E1DA has been reported to be excellent, and I go with that, but it is a dongle, it drains the phone battery. Its power output does not match that of the Mojo.
The sound quality at best is on a par with Mojo.
So I suggested it.
Now if there is some other issues you may have about the Mojo, they are out of place here.
- Mojo sound quality is better than your 5K, on a par with E1DA at least.
- It has about 500mW output power.
- It is rechargeable, not needing the phone battery.
- No balanced cable purchase is necessary.
- On ebay, I saw one today for £179.
All the above, just flew by you?

I don't doubt that it's a better unit, but if you're on a budget you might also find something cheaper on ebay that will work. E1DA 9038D does sometimes pop up on ebay aswell for less than half the price of the Mojo used price. And the 9038D that I referred to in terms of power is also single ended by the way, no need for balanced cable. That being said, the extra power could allways come in handy in the future, even if you don't need it for the XS. As for desktop, I'm really happy with Fiio K5 Pro ESS which sells for about $150 on ebay. Amp and dac combo unit with a nice volume pot, which should power close to any headphone on the market (with maybe a very small amount of exceptions with eq) from a single ended output.
 
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