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Hifiman Edition XS

Jimbob54

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Infamous is more apt ;).
Their warranty conditions, may have something to do with it.
Ali (anything but)express dealers may be selling QC failures, and the good ones may be going to Amazon, or to dealers in Europe or USA.
Any evidence at all to support this?

Their QC being not the best is a given, but for the "grading" by territory /channel?
 

Ken Tajalli

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Any evidence at all to support this?

Their QC being not the best is a given, but for the "grading" by territory /channel?
I said "May".
My guess as to why they have region/dealer conditions on their warranty.
 

Jimbob54

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I said "May".
My guess as to why they have region/dealer conditions on their warranty.
Nothing at all to do with laws /consumer expectations in different territories?

I'm not convinced they have the inclination to do serious testing to sort the wheat from the chaff, let alone send chaff elsewhere.
 

oceansize

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Infamous is more apt ;).
Their warranty conditions, may have something to do with it.
Ali (anything but)express dealers may be selling QC failures, and the good ones may be going to Amazon, or to dealers in Europe or USA.
Like MC RME, I bought my Edition XS through Ali Express and will be screwed if they fail. However, they've lasted 6 months (and counting), sound fantastic and have no obvious mechanical failings so dog knows how wonderful the "good" ones are that you can buy from Amazon.
 

Ken Tajalli

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Like MC RME, I bought my Edition XS through Ali Express and will be screwed if they fail. However, they've lasted 6 months (and counting), sound fantastic and have no obvious mechanical failings so dog knows how wonderful the "good" ones are that you can buy from Amazon.
It was just a guess , perhaps Alixpress ones are just as good.
I was one of the early adoptors .
I got mine last Nov. (I think) from a famous outlet from China (can't remember) and mine has been good too!
to throw muck, I got a Sundara from Amazon that turned out to be faulty and got sent back.
I don't really know.
The second Sundara lasted years, and my EDXS is going strong, despite me having opened it a few times and modifying it!
For the money, there is nothing better out there.
 

zxcvb

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My EDXS bought from amazon came with defective left driver. From time to time it will lose sound completely to bring it back I have to tap lower part of the driver or cable. I also feel like left drivers is slightly quieter. Tried different cables / sources and the issue is still noticeable. Waiting for amazon reply regarding exchange for another pair.
 
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mr.at

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zxcvb

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Can you run these through the apple dongle?
Tried mine with Meizu HiFi DAC pro and outcome was mediocre at most, I could definitely notice lack of power. Sound Blaster G6 was more or less ok but nothing spectacular. In the end I landed with Topping A30 Pro from with I'm very happy and it's noticeable upgrade from G6 and to dongle there is just no comparison.
 

Moderate Dionysianism

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Took the leap and ordered them. I'm about to return the 2nd pair, will probably swap for something else as I'm outside the return window.

First, the pros:
  • they do sound impressive out of the box. I EQ all my headphones, tried the presets from Oratory and Rtings, but ultimately settled for just a crude low bass shelf (4-5 dB at ~150 Hz). The detailed presentation is most impressive.
  • The large cups mean nothing touches your earlobe, that's a huge plus in my book;
  • they feel unstable on my head, but it's just a feeling, won't move that much unless I really start headbanging:) BTW, someone recommended this cover somewhere in this thread. It does work very well.
  • last but not least, this is the 1st headphone that to my ears seems almost totally immune to broken seal. I wear thin frame glasses but the temples sit ~3mm from the head. I couldn't detect any difference when listening with the glasses off. That's really something.
So why am I returning them? There is a nasty metallic resonance @ about 270 Hz and below. Like high pitched rattling/buzz, not crackles or hisses. I can hear it both with music and with pure tones. Ofc this is with no EQ, no boost anywhere. It starts when I reach 1 o'clock in mid gain on my THX 887 (balanced connection, but also audible via SE at higher levels). The 1st pair had it in the right channel only (that's why I assumed a defect), the second one has it in both, although the right gives in earlier. My HE4XX have no problem with the same frequencies at the same level.

I listen to some bass-heavy tracks so this is a deal-breaker for me. If you're curious, here is an example of a track they can't handle (wait fot the lows @0:24).

All in all, a disappointment for me. The EDXS do have some unique qualities up their sleeve. Going back to the 4XX, I feel a bit like stepping behind the veils again;) But for the life of me, I just can't rationalize those resonances in a headphone that costs about as much as all my previous pairs combined.
 

Luke Lemke

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Took the leap and ordered them. I'm about to return the 2nd pair, will probably swap for something else as I'm outside the return window.

First, the pros:
  • they do sound impressive out of the box. I EQ all my headphones, tried the presets from Oratory and Rtings, but ultimately settled for just a crude low bass shelf (4-5 dB at ~150 Hz). The detailed presentation is most impressive.
  • The large cups mean nothing touches your earlobe, that's a huge plus in my book;
  • they feel unstable on my head, but it's just a feeling, won't move that much unless I really start headbanging:) BTW, someone recommended this cover somewhere in this thread. It does work very well.
  • last but not least, this is the 1st headphone that to my ears seems almost totally immune to broken seal. I wear thin frame glasses but the temples sit ~3mm from the head. I couldn't detect any difference when listening with the glasses off. That's really something.
So why am I returning them? There is a nasty metallic resonance @ about 270 Hz and below. Like high pitched rattling/buzz, not crackles or hisses. I can hear it both with music and with pure tones. Ofc this is with no EQ, no boost anywhere. It starts when I reach 1 o'clock in mid gain on my THX 887 (balanced connection, but also audible via SE at higher levels). The 1st pair had it in the right channel only (that's why I assumed a defect), the second one has it in both, although the right gives in earlier. My HE4XX have no problem with the same frequencies at the same level.

I listen to some bass-heavy tracks so this is a deal-breaker for me. If you're curious, here is an example of a track they can't handle (wait fot the lows @0:24).

All in all, a disappointment for me. The EDXS do have some unique qualities up their sleeve. Going back to the 4XX, I feel a bit like stepping behind the veils again;) But for the life of me, I just can't rationalize those resonances in a headphone that costs about as much as all my previous pairs combined.
I own the Edition XS. They're my favorite headphones at the moment, "better" than cans twice its price for my ears. I tested your song and I might've heard something weird from the left driver, but nothing conclusive. I can't hear anything with any other songs, so either you got defective units or the issue is very subtle.
 

Georgeadv

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I went to a thread about oratory’s measurements

He has sundara and xs.

It is stated that pre eq sundara has 94 score and xs 87. Do these numbers have a merit?
 

Attachments

  • Hifiman Sundara (2020 revised earpads).pdf
    422.7 KB · Views: 62
  • Hifiman Edition XS.pdf
    419.8 KB · Views: 89

Jimbob54

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I went to a thread about oratory’s measurements

He has sundara and xs.

It is stated that pre eq sundara has 94 score and xs 87. Do these numbers have a merit?
Degree of compliance with the target. If you are planning to use eq I would say better looking at the post eq score. And that's assuming you like Harman tuned headphones.
 

Georgeadv

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Degree of compliance with the target. If you are planning to use eq I would say better looking at the post eq score. And that's assuming you like Harman tuned headphones.
Sundara is better pre and post eq….
 

Jimbob54

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mr.at

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Took the leap and ordered them. I'm about to return the 2nd pair, will probably swap for something else as I'm outside the return window.

First, the pros:
  • they do sound impressive out of the box. I EQ all my headphones, tried the presets from Oratory and Rtings, but ultimately settled for just a crude low bass shelf (4-5 dB at ~150 Hz). The detailed presentation is most impressive.
  • The large cups mean nothing touches your earlobe, that's a huge plus in my book;
  • they feel unstable on my head, but it's just a feeling, won't move that much unless I really start headbanging:) BTW, someone recommended this cover somewhere in this thread. It does work very well.
  • last but not least, this is the 1st headphone that to my ears seems almost totally immune to broken seal. I wear thin frame glasses but the temples sit ~3mm from the head. I couldn't detect any difference when listening with the glasses off. That's really something.
So why am I returning them? There is a nasty metallic resonance @ about 270 Hz and below. Like high pitched rattling/buzz, not crackles or hisses. I can hear it both with music and with pure tones. Ofc this is with no EQ, no boost anywhere. It starts when I reach 1 o'clock in mid gain on my THX 887 (balanced connection, but also audible via SE at higher levels). The 1st pair had it in the right channel only (that's why I assumed a defect), the second one has it in both, although the right gives in earlier. My HE4XX have no problem with the same frequencies at the same level.

I listen to some bass-heavy tracks so this is a deal-breaker for me. If you're curious, here is an example of a track they can't handle (wait fot the lows @0:24).

All in all, a disappointment for me. The EDXS do have some unique qualities up their sleeve. Going back to the 4XX, I feel a bit like stepping behind the veils again;) But for the life of me, I just can't rationalize those resonances in a headphone that costs about as much as all my previous pairs combined.
Okay so I tried that audio (which is quite low in volume mind you, had to turn my amp quite up - ifi microDSD).
I've tried much more powerful bass test tracks and samples (some attached - good reference samples here).
I don't find any issues with my pair.
I think you have a bad pair.
 

Attachments

  • - Audio Tests.zip
    2.5 MB · Views: 41

Moderate Dionysianism

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I tested your song and I might've heard something weird from the left driver, but nothing conclusive.

Thanks for the response and for checking! Here is another example - just the first 10 secs with that pulsating bass. I absolutely don't suggest you should torture and stress test your pair, but the tone generator cleared all the doubts I had. I started at 270 Hz and went down in 20 Hz intervals. With songs I had to crank the 887 to ~1 o'clock in mid gain (XLR), but with pure tones, in the 220-200 Hz region the resonance was clearly audible at 11 o'clock.


either you got defective units or the issue is very subtle.
I think you have a bad pair.

As said in my post, I tried two pairs, both had the same issue. Just before the weekend, I went to the dealer and the salesman gave me an Arya Stealth to audition. The resonance was there too, with both of us hearing it in the above song (I took my Tone2 Pro with me, so it was near max volume in high gain).

So I'd say it's a design thing. Made me remember the discussions here about Focal drivers (see the Clear Pro review). Another option is the dealer got an entire batch of faulty Hifimans...

As I already wrote, I'm far from hating on the headphone. I know it's perfectly competent with most material at normal volume levels. And on top of that, it has some outstanding qualities I listed in my previous post. At low to moderate levels, the sub-bass was indeed impressive. But If my $150 cans can handle all I throw at them and then some, I expect the $500 ones to do the same, and excellent performance in other areas just can't make up for that in my opinion.


EDIT: could I be hearing the reasonances @amirm caught when measuring the Aryas? It would match his observation of the effect extending up to several hundred Hertz:

1667056187820.png




The THD and group delay graphs in the review seem to confirm this. There is a spike to >1% distortion @200 Hz. No idea if I reached 114dBSPL when testing, but maybe it's just a tad more pronounced with the XS?
 
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mr.at

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@Moderate Dionysianism ok do one thing here. I have the Tone2Pro as well - even when maxed out (especially when maxed out), it actually distorts my XS. The Tone2 I use primarily as a DAC for my SH-9. Alone, it cannot take the XS (even balanced out).

Try the low-end with a more powerful amp. These Hifimans draw a lot of current in the lows. Make sure you have enough. On my Tone, I was hearing distortion as well, in some other track, and wasn't even sub-bass.

I don't think all the XS, Aryas, Anandas are kaput.

These are some rare instances you're having. I mean, I'm not vouching for Hifman - their quality can be shit sometimes (never for me though, third pair of Hifimans, all going strong). But that is a general sentiment, so I will not defend Hifiman.

Still, for those who generally have a pair that is fine and free from any inherent flaws, it shouldn't have any issues and should play okay. Plenty of folks own all these large Hifimans from $400 right up to $2000 and beyond... The higher priced ones CAN piss one off, using cheaper materials still, with minimal difference, and sometimes even the same $50 headband and even shittier cables, but the incidents you're having are isolated, trust me.
 
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