Hifiman Edition XS

[Blorg]

Yeah it's a defect i think. I can also see the traces on the diaphragm have unevenness on my unit. If you shine light on it, you can see bumps, wrinkles and cuts on the traces i don't know if it's related. I never noticed this with my Ananda.

Hard to capture on photo.

I don't think I see this on mine, but I don't see this on your photo either, mine look similar to your photo. If you had the old Ananda, I think it previously (pre-2020 or so?) didn't have the black fabric mesh, this was an update. My Ananda has it.

With regard to your sub-bass distortion test- playing a 20Hz test tone at very high levels, sitting on a desk, that goes away when you put them on your head- I'm not sure this is really a realistic test, they are not designed to be used to play very low sub-bass test tones on a desk, they are designed as headphones to be used on your head. I actually do notice with this, if I put them on, I get a variation in response as I move my head around, it seems if I move my head so one side cup now has a wall 60cm/2ft away from it, that actually has a noticeable effect (on very loud sub-bass tones, specifically). I'd put this down to their being open backs, stuff outside the headphone actually does impact on the sound. So I wonder if this is related, that when you have them on the desk, they are just too close to a solid surface, and that is interfering. I don't notice it with music at normal listening levels.

Do you have any perceived issues with them actually playing music?

 

[mr.at]

Yeah it's a defect i think. I can also see the traces on the diaphragm have unevenness on my unit. If you shine light on it, you can see bumps, wrinkles and cuts on the traces i don't know if it's related. I never noticed this with my Ananda.
View attachment 209658

Hard to capture on photo.

Ok so I know what this is.

This is a usual deviation from the tolerances that Hifiman often fails to enforce in their manufacturing.

Now first off, let me give you some assurance to the fact that this should not matter - this - manufacturing error ripple - should normally not affect the performance or the sound of the headphones. This is often evident in photos I've seen online, but usually of the sub $1500/2000 headphones they make. I've noticed such a ripple across the quarter area of my He 400is dia. I've seen a ripple literally on the He400i or He4XX headphones photo - on the product page of Massdrop/Drop! In the product listing!! The audacity of Hifiman - I know. Display unit for Drop guys to take photos - and the ripple shows. So ironic. Here you go: https://drop.com/buy/drop-hifiman-he4xx-planar-magnetic-headphones#imagecarousel

Basically, I guess this must have happened during the cooling down/temp change when the circuit was being embed.

If you're lucky - you don't get it on your driver(s). Otherwise, this must be some sort of routine for Hifiman guys. Also, I guess this is why above average planar headphones from most other companies are often multiple times the price of Hifimans (at least low/mid tear).

So when they talk about Hifiman QC - well, here it is.

As I mentioned in one of my very earlier posts... these guys left a very small round piece of circuit foil sticking to one of my XS drivers. I took the headphones apart, literally lifted up the glued fiber screen on the driver sandwich, and took it out - using a toothpick! I had to be very careful. A few mms here and there and I would have torn my dia. But I took the risk and came out clean, luckily.

Now, if your drivers still are making undesired sounds, it could be in part due to this, or it could even be something else still. So there.
Just like @Blorg said, and I will quote him as is "Do you have any perceived issues with them actually playing music?"

 

[aravaioli]

The Go Blu has significantly higher voltage (5.6V vs 4V) so it will go "louder" and you will have it at a lower % of the "max volume". This may indeed have more power as a result with high impedance headphones where you need more voltage.

You can't go anywhere near the notional max voltage/volume on the Qudelix into a low impedance headphone like the Edition XS without clipping. How are you figuring the 90-95%? It will go all the way up to 4V even into 18 ohms, as the Qudelix doesn't limit the voltage, but it will be a distorted mess. It would also be a severely dangerous listening level.

By the numbers I figure you should be able to get to just above 2V (2.08V) out of the max 4V, at that level you reach the 240mW max power and it will clip. Actually testing, distortion is audible already at 2V and is severe at 2.1V, with a 40Hz test tone. This is already at much too high a volume to actually listen to music though, I can listen to 40Hz briefly at this volume.

Maybe you mean 90-95% of 0dB? 0dB is 2V on the Qudelix, but 2V is only 50% of the actual volume range, it goes to 4V (+6dB). 1.8-1.9V would still be much too high a listening level for me, I can only put it to that for a second. Even 1V is too much, I'd be down around 200-250mV.

If you are familiar with the Qudelix app (I am sure you are), to reach a decent volume (probably not louder than 85dB) the left bar volume (source) is at 100% and the Qudelix bar is at what I estimate 90 to 95%.
I actually prefer the implementation of the Go Blue that merges the device and source volume. I can see there at 77% of my Galaxy S20 volume the volume is what I’d call loud enough. it seems very evident to me that regardless of specifications the Go Blu drives better, with more headroom the XS. Subjectively speaking it also sounds a bit better to me than both BTR5 and Q5k.

 

[Blorg]

@aravaioli I find 250-300mV or -18 to -16.5dB to be a comfortable listening volume with the Edition XS. As in the screenshot attached. This is presuming 100% input volume and modern compressed music that shows near 0db on the "Input" screen. With music that is mastered quieter though, like classical, it is much lower than 0db on the input screen and I can put the volume up quite a bit higher for that.

The app gives exact voltage output, this I feel is easier to communicate than "90-95%". Measuring with a ruler against my phone, 90% is 2V / 0dB, 95% is 2.825V / +3dB. This is in balanced, high power (4V) mode. These levels are unlistenably loud, and the latter is also well above the amount of power the Qudelix is capable of producing, so would be also incredibly distorted.

Note with the attached power budget, I'm not sure the 92dB/mW is actually right, I'm not sure if Hifiman quote sensitivity in mW or V. Actual measurements of their headphones seem to tend to find a level less sensitive than if quoted in mW, but more sensitive than if quoted in V. So I think the SPL on this is exaggerated and actual SPL is lower. But presuming the impedance is right the sensitivity doesn't matter to calculate power from voltage, and this does indicate that anything over 2.08V is going to clip, that's where the Qudelix runs out of power. But no way could I go near that, it's incredibly loud.

 

[dreamscene]

My edition XS is 2 months old, go to medium volume and left cup cuts out. Then wait 1 hr, shake it around, reconnect, starts playing, go slightly louder mid volume (not even that loud), it cut's out again. Then no amount of shaking and connecting and reconnecting works, wait a few more hours and suddenly left cup works again at super low volumes, increase the volume, kaboom, cut's out again. What a piece of sh*t. Hifiman want's me to send it back, $100 to post it back to China as it was bought from Aliexpress. Pathetic brand and quality. Should have taken heed of the bad QC and quality related posts but I fell for the hype.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

My edition XS is 2 months old, go to medium volume and left cup cuts out. Then wait 1 hr, shake it around, reconnect, starts playing, go slightly louder mid volume (not even that loud), it cut's out again. Then no amount of shaking and connecting and reconnecting works, wait a few more hours and suddenly left cup works again at super low volumes, increase the volume, kaboom, cut's out again. What a piece of sh*t. Hifiman want's me to send it back, $100 to post it back to China as it was bought from Aliexpress. Pathetic brand and quality. Should have taken heed of the bad QC and quality related posts but I fell for the hype.

If not already, join Headfi, leave a comment (try to be friendly despite your frustration) on this thread:

HiFiMan Quality Control?

I have been A/Bing the Arya v3 vs the Ananda and I do like the Ananda more because of the Tonality. Arya sounds thin and metallic compared to the Ananda which sounds full and alive. Arya is a somewhat similar sound but thinner. Arya has a massive soundstage and separation I'll give the Arya...

www.head-fi.org

Hifiman reps. read that thread, you got a good chance they contact you and sort it out.
Good luck!

 

[Phoney]

I think it's better to buy this unit in a local store if possible, with warranty. Anything that will make it easier for you if these problems occur can help, buying the XS from the other side of the planet seems like a risk at this point due to shipping cost and waiting time when the problems occur. Also, good warranty can be key.

 

[Barry_G]

Amazon is a good place to buy it, easy free returns and full warranty. You're actually buying from HifiMan's store on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/HIFIMAN-XS-Headphones-Audiophiles-Studio-Black/dp/B09PH1N67T

 

[techguypaul]

Dac/Amp recommendations for Hifiman Evolution XS?
I am looking for a suitable Dac/Amp with sufficient output.
The Topping DX5 I have is close but there's some old rock and roll that is mastered at lower levels that need some more gain.

 

[ngs428]

Dac/Amp recommendations for Hifiman Evolution XS?
I am looking for a suitable Dac/Amp with sufficient output.
The Topping DX5 I have is close but there's some old rock and roll that is mastered at lower levels that need some more gain.

My topping l30/e30 are working great for my XS. Plenty of headroom. I listen on -9 gain, no eq. They take less power than my 6xx.

 

[oceansize]

Dac/Amp recommendations for Hifiman Evolution XS?
I am looking for a suitable Dac/Amp with sufficient output.
The Topping DX5 I have is close but there's some old rock and roll that is mastered at lower levels that need some more gain.

Fiio K5 Pro is easily capable of driving Edition XS and won't break the bank.

 

[Blorg]

Fiio K5 Pro is easily capable of driving Edition XS and won't break the bank.

This is what I use, I'm typically in medium gain at around 11 o'clock.

 

[aravaioli]

@aravaioli I find 250-300mV or -18 to -16.5dB to be a comfortable listening volume with the Edition XS. As in the screenshot attached. This is presuming 100% input volume and modern compressed music that shows near 0db on the "Input" screen. With music that is mastered quieter though, like classical, it is much lower than 0db on the input screen and I can put the volume up quite a bit higher for that.

The app gives exact voltage output, this I feel is easier to communicate than "90-95%". Measuring with a ruler against my phone, 90% is 2V / 0dB, 95% is 2.825V / +3dB. This is in balanced, high power (4V) mode. These levels are unlistenably loud, and the latter is also well above the amount of power the Qudelix is capable of producing, so would be also incredibly distorted.

Note with the attached power budget, I'm not sure the 92dB/mW is actually right, I'm not sure if Hifiman quote sensitivity in mW or V. Actual measurements of their headphones seem to tend to find a level less sensitive than if quoted in mW, but more sensitive than if quoted in V. So I think the SPL on this is exaggerated and actual SPL is lower. But presuming the impedance is right the sensitivity doesn't matter to calculate power from voltage, and this does indicate that anything over 2.08V is going to clip, that's where the Qudelix runs out of power. But no way could I go near that, it's incredibly loud.

View attachment 209901View attachment 209902

Thank you. Perhaps it is my source that isn’t powerful even at 100% because for the Jazz I listen I reach almost full bar also on the right hand side of the screenshot you sent. I am 52, granted, but my hearing isn’t bad yet according to various tests.
Nevertheless with the same source the iFi goes louder and I do not miss the Qudelix app because I have Wavelet always on. It must be instead a blessing for iOS users…

 

[Blorg]

@aravaioli Jazz will often have a lower volume on the recording, and you can push the main volume higher. If you look at the Input tab and the Level RMS [dB] at the bottom, that gives the actual level of the music the Qudelix is playing. With most modern music, that will be very close to zero most of the time. With jazz or classical it is often considerably lower, below a bit from the middle of Miles Davis's So What, it's -10dB down. A comfortable listening volume on this for me would be higher than on more compressed modern music, I'd have it at maybe 600-800mV (-8dB) rather than 250-300mV.

 

[odyo]

Ok so I know what this is.

This is a usual deviation from the tolerances that Hifiman often fails to enforce in their manufacturing.

Now first off, let me give you some assurance to the fact that this should not matter - this - manufacturing error ripple - should normally not affect the performance or the sound of the headphones. This is often evident in photos I've seen online, but usually of the sub $1500/2000 headphones they make. I've noticed such a ripple across the quarter area of my He 400is dia. I've seen a ripple literally on the He400i or He4XX headphones photo - on the product page of Massdrop/Drop! In the product listing!! The audacity of Hifiman - I know. Display unit for Drop guys to take photos - and the ripple shows. So ironic. Here you go: https://drop.com/buy/drop-hifiman-he4xx-planar-magnetic-headphones#imagecarousel
View attachment 209849
Basically, I guess this must have happened during the cooling down/temp change when the circuit was being embed.

If you're lucky - you don't get it on your driver(s). Otherwise, this must be some sort of routine for Hifiman guys. Also, I guess this is why above average planar headphones from most other companies are often multiple times the price of Hifimans (at least low/mid tear).

So when they talk about Hifiman QC - well, here it is.

As I mentioned in one of my very earlier posts... these guys left a very small round piece of circuit foil sticking to one of my XS drivers. I took the headphones apart, literally lifted up the glued fiber screen on the driver sandwich, and took it out - using a toothpick! I had to be very careful. A few mms here and there and I would have torn my dia. But I took the risk and came out clean, luckily.

Now, if your drivers still are making undesired sounds, it could be in part due to this, or it could even be something else still. So there.
Just like @Blorg said, and I will quote him as is "Do you have any perceived issues with them actually playing music?"

Yes. Exactly this. ''Perceived issues'' is why i started to inspect what is going on in the first place. Yes there are perceived issues especially in the bass. Now it's hard to put your finger on these issues. People use their HE6se's with stuck drivers and don't notice problems until they compare. That's why i'm not 100% sure.

 

[mr.at]

Yes. Exactly this. ''Perceived issues'' is why i started to inspect what is going on in the first place. Yes there are perceived issues especially in the bass. Now it's hard to put your finger on these issues. People use their HE6se's with stuck drivers and don't notice problems until they compare. That's why i'm not 100% sure.

I see. Well if you have any warranty on these, it's best to put your mind to rest and send them back for a replacement.
Most of us don't have issues with our pairs, but Hifiman isn't really a star manufacturer when it comes to quality, so there could be issues in manufacturing.
Go right ahead. Get it sorted.

 

[odyo]

I see. Well if you have any warranty on these, it's best to put your mind to rest and send them back for a replacement.
Most of us don't have issues with our pairs, but Hifiman isn't really a star manufacturer when it comes to quality, so there could be issues in manufacturing.
Go right ahead. Get it sorted.

I'll go for Arya this time. Hifiman may have problems with the QC but their support is really good.

 

[Blorg]

I'll go for Arya this time. Hifiman may have problems with the QC but their support is really good.

I'd be interested if you get the Arya at the same time as the Edition XS your thoughts as to the differences. Mine sound very very similar.

 

[odyo]

I'd be interested if you get the Arya at the same time as the Edition XS your thoughts as to the differences. Mine sound very very similar.

Will see if i can compare them side by side or from memory. I have a good memory of Ananda too. XS and Ananda sound pretty different in my opinion despite having the identical design and very similar Hifiman fr.

 

[Blorg]

Will see if i can compare them side by side or from memory. I have a good memory of Ananda too. XS and Ananda sound pretty different in my opinion despite having the identical design and very similar Hifiman fr.

I have the Ananda as well. It is "similar" but quite distinct, the largest difference being the bass which rolls off early on the Ananda but doesn't on the Edition XS or Arya Stealth. Also the Ananda is possibly a little more restrained, less sharp in the lower treble.

I find the Edition XS and Arya Stealth to be more similar to each other than either to the Ananda.