On my gear the Supremes songs sounded like a treble assault, just awful. The Oasis song sounded ok. An extended discussion about songs that sound sibilant or not would be interesting. Does such a thread exist, or does someone want to start one?
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Hifiman Edition XS - poor highs?
- Thread starter PH14
- Start date
Your HRTF probably gets a 9Khz resonance peak while others have less peak at frequency. While I don’t have the Edition XS, I have my Sony MDR 7506 (BT) and listened to your test tracks. Of course, I never EQ my headphones because they’re tonally perfect to me
ZERO sibilance Zero sharpness whatsoever on any of the tracks you mentioned. The tracks are bright but NEVER piercing
Last edited:
After using the HD 600 for seven long years in a row, some days ago I found the XS at an incredible price (320€) so I decided to try them. My first impression was... they sounded terrible! The sound was piercing, way too sharp and lacking mids. I tried to get used to the sound signature but I noticed real discomfort (even pain) in my ears. I'm sensitive to treble and I already had some issues in the past with headphones like the DT 880 and the ATH-M40x.
I searched online about how to equalize them, and I tried several EQs, including Oratory's and AutoEQ (based on Oratory's measurements). I went with a mix of them and tuned it a little bit afterwards while using a sine wave generator and also listening to some music.
This equalization has improved the experience A LOT for me, although it has taken away part of the "fun factor" and "characterization" of the headphones, but there's no more discomfort or pain! Even with equalization I don't feel the smoothness of the Sennheiser's treble... but the bass, resolution, instrument separation and soundstage of the Hifiman are better and makes them worth owning.
I'm writing here my settings just in case anybody wants to give them a try and I'm also attaching a picture of the graph. If you apply the equalization while using the headphones it can sound quite weird at first but give it a couple of hours... after that, at least to my ears, the Hifiman acquires the sweet tonal balance of the HD 600 but with improved capabilities.
I searched online about how to equalize them, and I tried several EQs, including Oratory's and AutoEQ (based on Oratory's measurements). I went with a mix of them and tuned it a little bit afterwards while using a sine wave generator and also listening to some music.
This equalization has improved the experience A LOT for me, although it has taken away part of the "fun factor" and "characterization" of the headphones, but there's no more discomfort or pain! Even with equalization I don't feel the smoothness of the Sennheiser's treble... but the bass, resolution, instrument separation and soundstage of the Hifiman are better and makes them worth owning.
I'm writing here my settings just in case anybody wants to give them a try and I'm also attaching a picture of the graph. If you apply the equalization while using the headphones it can sound quite weird at first but give it a couple of hours... after that, at least to my ears, the Hifiman acquires the sweet tonal balance of the HD 600 but with improved capabilities.
Attachments
Last edited:
solderdude
Grand Contributor
My review of the Edition XS is now up.
Indeed there is some sibilance and sharpness.
Indeed there is some sibilance and sharpness.
I have the same experience - EXS are sharp and fatiguing in highs. Example: in Miles Davis Sketches of Spain his trumpet is like drilling your ears. The same piece with Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire - smooth and sweet. Try EQ. BTW, I find Simon and Garfunkel most music on Qobuz recorded / mixed with rather poor quality. Cheers...
AryaStealth
Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2023
- Messages
- 51
- Likes
- 29
majingotan, do you have a theory as to why Dan Clark Aeon X Open sound perfect to you WITHOUT EQ yet their preference rating before EQ is only 62. (After EQ though it goes up to 100). It looks like Harman curve may need a special planar over-ear version if such a bass boost over Harman target feels just right.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
personal preference ?
Not all people have the same preference and Harman target only satisfies the majority of listeners. So Majingotan may not fall in that majority.
And even within the majority of people that prefer Harman target I am sure you will find a lot of people that want a dB more or less bass boost.
The closed DCA version does not have the lower mids hump b.t.w.
Not all people have the same preference and Harman target only satisfies the majority of listeners. So Majingotan may not fall in that majority.
And even within the majority of people that prefer Harman target I am sure you will find a lot of people that want a dB more or less bass boost.
The closed DCA version does not have the lower mids hump b.t.w.
The high treble sibilant issue is sure there, you are not imagining it!
No amount of EQ cures it either.
Try something for fun :
- the back grill hasthin metal bars across , give the larger one a little pluck with your finger nail - like a guitar - then watch it ring like a bell! at about the same frequency of your detected issue.
Coincidence ? I don't think so.
No amount of EQ cures it either.
Try something for fun :
- the back grill hasthin metal bars across , give the larger one a little pluck with your finger nail - like a guitar - then watch it ring like a bell! at about the same frequency of your detected issue.
Coincidence ? I don't think so.
Basically all Hifiman has sibilant issue and boosted treble, this is their "house sound". Cheaper versions are so-so, but their bigger cans are painful even for the less sensitive guys, so imagine how bad they are for the normal people, especially if someone used to the more natural sounding cans.
Having heard all Hifiman models, the egg shape ones have the most treble and "sss" vocal boost while the circular ones have the perfect treble tuning. Basically, if you're not willing to EQ, I can only recommend either the Sundara or Susvara. Susvara is their only true "house sound". The rest of their lineup are inferior versions of their house sound which is a deliberate move to splurge up to their flagship model. Susvara fits my head more than most headphones out there except for DCA Expanse and Stealth (these two headphones are unbeatable in comfort). I was debating whether to get Expanse, Stealh, Utopia, LCD-5 or Susvara, but after extensive A/Bing for 2 hours, I ultimately prefer Susvara for its overall sonics without any glaring faults. To my subjective listening experience, Expanse lacked the upper treble for me (it should be at least 2-3 dB boosted linearly from 4KHz to 20KHz or equivalent of the Steatlh, Stealth couldn't match the details of Susvara. LCD-5 matches Susvara in details but has tonality issues while Utopia's redeeming factor is only the dynamic driver "slam and punch" traits. Susvara is the easiest to drive out of all the planar flagships as well while DCA Expanse is the hardest to drive.
All good.
But for the rest of us paupers where money does not grow on trees! The XS is a very good compromise (that's what we need to do).
The XS is light, comfy, reasonably priced, and can be driven with 0.5W of power happily. On sound quality, within price bracket, I haven't heard better, though not perfect.
But if money was no object, I take LCD5 or Susvara.
I'd be interested to know how the Ananda nano is with these sharp sss.. sounds. I had a chance to have a quick demo and I did try a few tracks - I had the impression it was much better (I tried a few of the problem tracks I called out earlier on the thread). But I certainly wouldn't say I had the chance to form a complete impression.Having heard all Hifiman models, the egg shape ones have the most treble and "sss" vocal boost while the circular ones have the perfect treble tuning. Basically, if you're not willing to EQ, I can only recommend either the Sundara or Susvara. Susvara is their only true "house sound". The rest of their lineup are inferior versions of their house sound which is a deliberate move to splurge up to their flagship model. Susvara fits my head more than most headphones out there except for DCA Expanse and Stealth (these two headphones are unbeatable in comfort). I was debating whether to get Expanse, Stealh, Utopia, LCD-5 or Susvara, but after extensive A/Bing for 2 hours, I ultimately prefer Susvara for its overall sonics without any glaring faults. To my subjective listening experience, Expanse lacked the upper treble for me (it should be at least 2-3 dB boosted linearly from 4KHz to 20KHz or equivalent of the Steatlh, Stealth couldn't match the details of Susvara. LCD-5 matches Susvara in details but has tonality issues while Utopia's redeeming factor is only the dynamic driver "slam and punch" traits. Susvara is the easiest to drive out of all the planar flagships as well while DCA Expanse is the hardest to drive.
If I were to rank treble boost vs treble tonality (or refinement) between the hifiman models based on my memory last week, this would be the case in my subjective opinion:
Treble boost from worst to least (in terms of sibilance "sss")
1) Arya Organic
2) HE1000se
3) Ananda Nano
4) Arya Stealth = Ananda Stealth = HE1000v2
5) Edition XS
6) Susvara
7) Sundara = HE-6se
Treble tonality, refinement and clarity worst to least
1) Edition XS
2) Sundara
3) Ananda Stealth = Ananda Nano = HE-6se
4) Arya Stealth = Arya Organic
5) HE1000se
6) Susvara
When those two traits are combined, these are my rankings from worst to least:
1) Arya Organic = HE1000SE
2) Edition XS
3) Ananda Nano = Arya Stealth
4) HE-6se
5) Sundara
6) Susvara
Then it seems like the HE6se is really a bang for the buck at the usual discounted price. Tahts is the only Hifiman stuff im interested in, so i guess im lucky.
InfiniteJester
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2024
- Messages
- 402
- Likes
- 406
You are objectively wrong, though.
AKGs and HDs don't have audible distorsion. Where the distorsion on the XS is very audible and really bad.
Here is the comparison with AKG K702. A very old pair of headphones that I personally enjoy pretty much.
Attachments
Trying to EQ frequencies above 3000Hz is often pointless. Sound wavelengths at these frequencies are so small that your headphone fit significantly affects how you perceive tone. Moreover, your HRTF changes the headphones' output significantly above 5000Hz based on your ear canal anatomy. A practical approach is to run a frequency sweep above 5000Hz with your headphones on in the most stable and repeatable position, identify any peaks, and adjust your EQ accordingly. However, if you alter the way you wear your headphones, these EQ adjustments may no longer apply. Despite this, finding and adjusting for these peaks is still preferable to randomly EQing your headphones to meet a standard target. Generally, trying to EQ headphones above 3000~5000Hz doesn't work well in most situations.
Last edited:
InfiniteJester
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2024
- Messages
- 402
- Likes
- 406
Another source where the old AKG K702 destroys the XS at distortion.
I don't understand how the XS harmonic distortion can be viewed as acceptable or surpassing dynamic drivers.
The AKG are 14 years old and you can find them for 100€ on sale.
I think you are wrong here, @majingotan.
I don't understand how the XS harmonic distortion can be viewed as acceptable or surpassing dynamic drivers.
The AKG are 14 years old and you can find them for 100€ on sale.
I think you are wrong here, @majingotan.
BZ22
Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2024
- Messages
- 41
- Likes
- 14
I can confirm that there are unit variations.
I have two Edition XS units here.
The treble and bass sound a little bit cleaner in one unit.
I assume the other has more distortion. One small thing I noticed about the construction of both units... in one, the cable goes completely into the headphones, and
In the unit with more distortion, the cable doesn't go in as far.
However, we're talking about less than 1mm. I don't know if that makes the difference.
But I wouldn't worry too much about it. They both still sound super great.
Especially at that price, you won't find anything better.
The only thing I don't like about the Edition XS is that the front/back soundstage could be a little bit better represented.
I would never describe the high treble of the Edition XS as harsh.
To me, they sound neutral compared to other headphones.
It depends on the track, it's not uncommon for too much harmonic distortion and high frequencies to be added during the mixing process in modern music.
With really well-mixed tracks, the XS will not sound harsh.
I have two Edition XS units here.
The treble and bass sound a little bit cleaner in one unit.
I assume the other has more distortion. One small thing I noticed about the construction of both units... in one, the cable goes completely into the headphones, and
In the unit with more distortion, the cable doesn't go in as far.
However, we're talking about less than 1mm. I don't know if that makes the difference.
But I wouldn't worry too much about it. They both still sound super great.
Especially at that price, you won't find anything better.
The only thing I don't like about the Edition XS is that the front/back soundstage could be a little bit better represented.
I would never describe the high treble of the Edition XS as harsh.
To me, they sound neutral compared to other headphones.
It depends on the track, it's not uncommon for too much harmonic distortion and high frequencies to be added during the mixing process in modern music.
With really well-mixed tracks, the XS will not sound harsh.
Last edited:
BZ22
Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2024
- Messages
- 41
- Likes
- 14
Need to update my last post because I've learned something new about unit variation.
I listened to two Arya`s, and even though one unit had only been used for a few hours, it made a difference.
The difference sounded very similar to what I experienced with the XS.
I never believed in burn-in, but it turns out it's not just a placebo.
I also know that headphones undergo a burn-in phase at the factory, so it is possible that there could be a difference even right out of the box.
To really confirm unit variation, I think you would need to compare two fully burned-in units
I listened to two Arya`s, and even though one unit had only been used for a few hours, it made a difference.
The difference sounded very similar to what I experienced with the XS.
I never believed in burn-in, but it turns out it's not just a placebo.
I also know that headphones undergo a burn-in phase at the factory, so it is possible that there could be a difference even right out of the box.
To really confirm unit variation, I think you would need to compare two fully burned-in units
Last edited:
