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Hifiman Arya Review (headphone)

Rate this headphone:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 12 4.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 54 18.2%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 135 45.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 96 32.3%

  • Total voters
    297

Jimbob54

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This was mostly a retort to the hearing damage accusation I received despite the headphone in question having a ripped out midrange and stabbing peaks in the treble, but I am a Harman certified trained listener based on this.
What a stroke of fortune you coming along. @GaryH has been talking about that very program the past week or so. Get a room!
 

Jimbob54

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Only if the dimensions of the pressurized volume of air in a pressure chamber are smaller than the wavelength of sound is sound pressure created by excursion instead of acceleration. Thus, reflected sounds are of no significance in headphones.
So soundstage doesn't exist somewhere in the physical properties of headphones. OK, that's a bit of a game changer for all the reviewers out there including our host.
 
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GaryH

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Glad to see someone on here who's aware of the definition of a trained listener in the scientific literature, and willing to back up claims of their listening abilities with something quantifiable.
 
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GaryH

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Only if the dimensions of the pressurized volume of air in a pressure chamber are smaller than the wavelength of sound is sound pressure created by excursion instead of acceleration. Thus, reflected sounds are of no significance in headphones.
As I said in this post, pressure chamber conditions only fully hold for low frequencies in over-ear headphones. For higher frequencies, the wavelengths of the sound waves are smaller than the air volume, so internal acoustic reflections can become significant.
 

HRTF_Enthusiast

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As I said in this post, pressure chamber conditions only fully hold for low frequencies in over-ear headphones. For higher frequencies, the wavelengths of the sound waves are smaller than the air volume, so internal acoustic reflections can become significant.
When the front volume isn't completely sealed in over-ears (usually the case in real use) like it is for IEMs, frequencies above 10-12 kHz are created by excursion instead of acceleration. However, frequencies above this range are not significant for perceived sound quality anyways. My stance is that psychological factors play a much larger role in perceived spatial qualities over sonic properties.
 

HRTF_Enthusiast

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Also, I find the "internal resolution" hysteria to be quite comical. You would think that if a high end headphone manufacturer could make headphones with "incredible internal resolution," they would get tone right as well. Of course, distortion exists, but even this doesn't matter past a certain threshold. Forward and reverse direction auditory masking principles based on tone play the biggest role in perceived detail.
 

GaryH

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When the front volume isn't completely sealed in over-ears (usually the case in real use) like it is for IEMs, frequencies above 10-12 kHz are created by excursion instead of acceleration.
Looks like you have this the wrong way round - sound pressure depends on driver excursion in pressure chamber conditions, which occur in a sealed volume at lower frequencies; sound pressure depends on driver acceleration in free-field conditions, at higher frequencies. Also, not sure where you got the 10-12 kHz figure from - that corresponds to a wavelength of ~2.9-3.4 cm, which will be significantly shorter than the depth of the front volume (which includes the ear canal, typically ~2.5 cm), so the 'transition frequency' from lower-frequency excursion-dominated to higher-frequency acceleration-dominated driver behaviour would be much lower than 10 kHz.
My stance is that psychological factors play a much larger role in perceived spatial qualities over sonic properties.
I suspect both are significant factors - along with open backs allowing environmental sound in, large, deep earcups provide the psychological similarity (compared to smaller, shallower cups) of listening to speakers with no physical deformation or touching of the pinna, but they also allow for more acoustic reflections off the entire pinna (which plays a part in the HRTF you're eponymously enthused by), contributing to what I'd call 'authentic soundstage', plus internal earcup reflections, what I'd call 'fake soundstage'. As an example, the HD600 has relatively shallow pads (especially used), with the depth to the driver quite short, and is known for its narrow 'in your head' soundstage, whereas the HD800 has larger, deeper earcups that fully encompass and take the driver further away from the ear, and is as we know renowned for its expansive soundstage (and this is all true, maybe to a lesser extent, for the Arya). Of course all this ultimately shows up in the frequency response measured (or heard) at the DRP.
 
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HRTF_Enthusiast

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Looks like you have this the wrong way round - sound pressure depends on driver excursion in pressure chamber conditions, which occur in a sealed volume at lower frequencies; sound pressure depends on driver acceleration in free-field conditions, at higher frequencies.
My mistake. You are correct. In lower frequencies, like you said, the dimensions of the pressurized volume of air are smaller than the wavelength of sound.
 

solderdude

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With enough bands, HD600 can be EQ'd to sonically perform like HD800S.

Only in tonal balance and only when measured (and EQ derived from) those measurements which will differ from the EQ needed for the individual wearing the headphones. The angled driver will have a different effect on different pinnae.
 

HRTF_Enthusiast

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Only in tonal balance and only when measured (and EQ derived from) those measurements which will differ from the EQ needed for the individual wearing the headphones. The angled driver will have a different effect on different pinnae.
Your stance is that if one uses 500 band PEQ to convert HD650 to HD800S with in-ear microphones, they will not perform technically the same?
 

Ezees

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I EQ HD650 to flat sub-bass. I have voltage matched blind tested various amps with low distortion and flat frequency response. Have you done the same?
Level matched HP comparisons, yes. Amps, matched: sighted and blind. EQ, not really an advocate unless some HP/speaker is too bright or too bass heavy. I really like to hear my components and transducers as they are, hence that's why I have invested in better quality components and transducers. The Harman Target is simply a FR profile of what many consumers (also untrained) find preferred or acceptable. Great that you've done the EQ on the hd650, but when many transducers (especially dynamic drivers) are EQ'd extensively in frequencies that they're not naturally able to easily reproduce, their distortion tends to rise significantly and sometimes dramatically. EQ and exact level matching is extremely important for studio and reference level environments but is not absolutely essential for casual listening sessions. I don't feel the necessity to EQ the Arya or the Ananda with my chain. Be well.
 

Luke

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Your stance is that if one uses 500 band PEQ to convert HD650 to HD800S with in-ear microphones, they will not perform technically the same?

I tried with the built-in equalizer in REW, so not quite 500 bands haha

I used open earcanal mics that sit at the EEP. I couldn't make my HD600 and HD800 sound the same with respect to "spatial qualities". But I think a large part of it is down to how a headphone feels on your head. Do the pads touch your ears? Does it clamp like a motherfucker?

I'm less convinced on stuff like angled drivers because I wore my HD800 backwards as a test, that is, with the drivers angled the wrong way! And I didn't feel like the "spaciousness" went away. It sounded worse, unsurprisingly, but the spaciousness I associate with the HD800 was still largely there.
 

A Surfer

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I have owned several HiFi Man cans and I most regret selling off my Edition X V2. Sadly needed the money for speaker upgrades. That was a very nice headphone.
 

solderdude

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Your stance is that if one uses 500 band PEQ to convert HD650 to HD800S with in-ear microphones, they will not perform technically the same?

You can get them to measure exactly the same on the that particular test fixture in one particular position. They will tonally be very close, at least closer than when no EQ was applied. They will not measure the same on another test fixture nor sound the same to everyone using the exact same headphone on that exact EQ.

In other words... even the most exact EQ based on 1 measurement is not as exact as some folks expect it to be.
 
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HRTF_Enthusiast

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You can get them to measure exactly the same on the that particular test fixture in one particular position. They will tonally be very close, at least closer than when no EQ was applied. They will not measure the same on another test fixture nor sound the same to everyone using the exact same headphone on that exact EQ.

In other words... even the most exact EQ based on 1 measurement is not as exact as some folks expect it to be.
Well, I'm only referring to a scenario where an individual uses in-ear canal microphones
 

solderdude

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I don't know of any consumers ever going to use those, let alone calibrated ones. :)

I also don't think you need 500 band ones for that. There is something like ERB so less filters should be enough to get at least the tonal balance equal in these conditions.
 

HRTF_Enthusiast

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I don't know of any consumers ever going to use those, let alone calibrated ones. :)

I also don't think you need 500 band ones for that. There is something like ERB so less filters should be enough to get at least the tonal balance equal in these conditions.
If they did, would "spatial qualities" not be identical aside from psychological factors owing to comfort, fit, etc.?
 

dannut

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Yes, they would. But you really need pressure capture at the individuals eardrum without blocking the ear canal, to get a meaningful comparison. So one person HD650->HD800s equalization is wrong for other person, due to different pinna and ear canal resonance activation between those phones on different users. Also, with circumaurals, there is slightly different transfer function with every positioning, so a 500 band filter is meaningless. But why emulate HD800? Why not a frontal reference source?
 

HRTF_Enthusiast

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Yes, they would. But you really need pressure capture at the individuals eardrum without blocking the ear canal, to get a meaningful comparison. So one person HD650->HD800s equalization is wrong for other person, due to different pinna and ear canal resonance activation between those phones on different users. Also, with circumaurals, there is slightly different transfer function with every positioning, so a 500 band filter is meaningless. But why emulate HD800? Why not a frontal reference source?
HD800S is often considered the pinnacle of soundstage in headphones. And again, I never claimed that equalization for one person is the same for another.
 
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