Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 Headphone Review

[Blorg]

@Robbo99999 right and flat is a very good result, that's what I'm saying. 560S doesn't have a Harman bass shelf. I haven't heard it, it does look very well tuned. Most seem to put the HD600 and HD650 above it though, despite being further away from Harman in that regard. The Expanse I mentioned at one of the very very few well regarded open backs that actually has Harman bass but I believe they do this with passive electronics which impacts on the drivability and possibly other aspects. I haven't heard it though.

 

[CedarX]

My more general point, though, is that a totally flat bass extension from an open back is extremely good, and for that matter there are even pretty universally acclaimed headphones that don't even have that, but have a roll-off (most dynamic drivers).

Isn't it inherently controversial? "Bass" weight significantly in the perception of sound quality, yet "preferences" in the bass area are very (highly?) variable and most music bass content drops significantly on the very low end... AFAIK, Harman research acknowledges this, recognizing that some individuals just like moar bass and, I believe the preference score ignoring <50 Hz (not 100% sure)
I like Amir's approach of evaluating first the HP against the target ("as-is") and then looking at "EQ-abilty" if it is deviating significantly from the target.

 

[Blorg]

Isn't it inherently controversial? "Bass" weight significantly in the perception of sound quality, yet "preferences" in the bass area are very (highly?) variable and most music bass content drops significantly on the very low end... AFAIK, Harman research acknowledges this, recognizing that some individuals just like moar bass and, I believe the preference score ignoring <50 Hz (not 100% sure)
I like Amir's approach of evaluating first the HP against the target ("as-is") and then looking at "EQ-abilty" if it is deviating significantly from the target.

This is the thing though, totally flat bass is the easiest to EQ the way you want it... Easier than a shelf, and a lot easier than a roll-off, as you are more likely to run into distortion or power issues boosting than cutting. Bear in mind most people don't have measuring rigs and unit variance is a thing, so it can be quite hard to EQ from other people's measurements. I got a rig for IEMs and it has been fantastic, that I can now EQ very exactly for my own actual unit, and confirm results, or what different tips or mods do.

My own personal feeling, very low sub bass is not that audible and I won't do drastic 10dB+ adjustments to bring up a roll off, I'll just add a shelf and let it go in the lower regions. Sometimes it takes another big boost at 20-30Hz to get something up to Harman there, I'll just leave it out. But flat is still easier and preferable. It depends the size of the roll off, too, I have both of these and the Stealth does perceptibly have better bass than the original did.

 

[Robbo99999]

@Robbo99999 right and flat is a very good result, that's what I'm saying. 560S doesn't have a Harman bass shelf. I haven't heard it, it does look very well tuned. Most seem to put the HD600 and HD650 above it though, despite being further away from Harman in that regard. The Expanse I mentioned at one of the very very few well regarded open backs that actually has Harman bass but I believe they do this with passive electronics which impacts on the drivability and possibly other aspects. I haven't heard it though.

I agree, except it depends who you talk to re HD560s vs HD600/650. I have HD600 & HD560s and HD560s is miles better for me, people vary though. There's quite a few people here that like HD560s better than HD600/650, we have to judge on our own experiences though.

 

[Robbo99999]

This is the thing though, totally flat bass is the easiest to EQ the way you want it... Easier than a shelf, and a lot easier than a roll-off, as you are more likely to run into distortion or power issues boosting than cutting. Bear in mind most people don't have measuring rigs and unit variance is a thing, so it can be quite hard to EQ from other people's measurements. I got a rig for IEMs and it has been fantastic, that I can now EQ very exactly for my own actual unit, and confirm results, or what different tips or mods do.

My own personal feeling, very low sub bass is not that audible and I won't do drastic 10dB+ adjustments to bring up a roll off, I'll just add a shelf and let it go in the lower regions. Sometimes it takes another big boost at 20-30Hz to get something up to Harman there, I'll just leave it out. But flat is still easier and preferable. It depends the size of the roll off, too, I have both of these and the Stealth does perceptibly have better bass than the original did.

I do the same, inasmuch that headphones that are rolled off in the bass I'll only try to get 30Hz (or 35Hz depending on how rolled off they are) to Harman and then I'll let it roll off naturally under that.

 

[CedarX]

I agree, except it depends who you talk to re HD560s vs HD600/650. I have HD600 & HD560s and HD560s is miles better for me, people vary though. There's quite a few people here that like HD560s better than HD600/650, we have to judge on our own experiences though.

I have all three... My (subjective) preference "as-is": HD650. After EQ: HD560S. But, I'll readily admit that I could not EQ HD560S to a satisfactory level by ear only; looking at measurements and suggested EQ was key.
So @Blorg made a good point about the ease of EQ. Headphones evaluation should be a 3-steps process: 1/ raw FR & deviation from target, 2/ EQ-ability (is it salvageable?), and 3/ How easy it is to EQ.

Ananda biggest issue may not be so much the flat bass--it is easy to EQ to whatever you like--but the "complex filter recipe" it requires in the highs to reach Amir's recommended level.

 

[HoJ76]

Replaced my he400iver2020 today.

 

[Maiky76]

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 open back headphone. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $399.
View attachment 338437
It is typical Hifiman large cup configuration that seems to assume you ear are twice as long as they really are! If find the headphone attractive and comfortable to wear.

Let's measure its response using GRAS 45CA driving by Audio Precision APx555 analyzer. If you are new to my headphone measurements, I highly recommend that you watch my video tutorial on headphone measurements.

Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 Measurements
Let's start with our headphone frequency response measurements in the context of most preferred target response:
View attachment 338438
It is clear to see the bass deficiency. Response also gets wavy from 500 Hz to 1 kHz and then we have some short fall in lower treble. Response then becomes cyclical with peaks that exceed our target. Net results is likely a flat and slightly bright sound signature. Subtracting the two curves gives us the areas we need to correct with equalization:
View attachment 338439

The relative distortion graph has a lot of fuzziness:
View attachment 338441

The peak around 6 kHz seems like a clear design issue. But the roughness between 500 Hz and 3 kHz is odd and made me wonder if there is some room reflections. I rotated my fixture but it made no difference even though that made a substantial difference as far as reflections. I swapped the cups the other way around the distortions tracked the left channel so not a room issue. I then checked the other channel and surprisingly, was much cleaner:
View attachment 338442
Notice how at 94 dBSPL (blue), there is essentially no distortion from 500 Hz to 4 kHz. This says there is some serious quality control issue here. Even beyond that, we have bass distortion that goes out of control at 114 dBSPL and again, around 6 kHz. Latter which likely is a series of resonances, should have been found and fixed during development as it has such a clear signature.

Edit: forgot to include the absolute distortion level graph:

View attachment 338458

Group delay is messy, no doubt due to the distortions we saw above:
View attachment 338443

Impedance is flat and low as planar magnetic drivers are usually so:

View attachment 338444

I zoomed way in (inset) and we clearly see impedance changing due to resonance around 6.2 kHz. There are other peaks in there as well. So you don't even need the distortion test to know there is something here to be fixed.

Good news is that this is a fairly sensitive headphone which combined with low impedance should make it relatively easy to drive:
View attachment 338446

Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 Listening Tests and Equalization
First impression was "OK" with glassy, flat sound with a tinge of brightness. That impression grew more negative once I developed the full set of filters and performed AB tests:

View attachment 338448
The bass correction which took two filters to shape it as inverse of headphone response was a given. This added warm and by itself made a good improvement. I then dialed in the filters up to 5 and sound was much improved but still needed some work. I am loathe normally in making corrections above those frequencies but here, I found it quite useful to remove some grittiness from the high frequencies.

Once the complex filter recipe was in place, the improvements were dramatic. Sub-bass response was excellent (a surprised due to high level of distortion). High frequencies were now much cleaner and balanced. And spatial qualities improved as well which is a strong feature of these large cups.

Conclusions
Objective measurements clearly show design issues and decisions. Even if you accept the tonality as is, there is no excuse for high levels of distortion at focused energies which indicate resonances. This is topped with one channel distorting much more than the other in critical area of our hearing. So by any measure, pun intended, this is a flawed headphone. Fortunately the out of box response is not annoying and with EQ, you get a nice transformation to something resembling highly performant headphone.

I can only recommend the Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 with equalization.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

Please report your findings, positive or negative!

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve (and other constrains) with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be therefore more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF and maybe at HF).
• The range around and above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo, the boosts and preamp gain (loss of Dynamic range) need to be carefully considered to avoid issues with, amongst other things, too low a Max SPL or damaging your device. You have beed warned.
• Not all units of the same product are made equal. The EQ is based on the measurements of a single unit. YMMV with regards to the very unit you are trying this EQ on.
• I sometimes use variations of the Harman curve for some reasons. See rational here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pro-review-headphone.28244/page-5#post-989169
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pro-review-headphone.28244/page-6#post-992119
• NOTE: the score then calculated is not comparable to the scores derived from the default Harman target curve if not otherwise noted.

Good L/R match.

I have generated one EQ, the APO config file is attached.

Score no EQ: 77.9
Score Amirm: 75.3
Score with EQ: 78.5

Score limited by the trough at 10kHz.
Interested to see the subject comments as the scores are really close but the responses maybe different enough to be separated.

Hifiman Ananda  APO Score EQ Full Flat@HF 96000Hz
March072024-160650

Preamp: -5.6 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 19.80 Hz Gain 5.56 dB Q 0.33
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 194.54 Hz Gain -1.72 dB Q 1.15
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 910.97 Hz Gain -2.17 dB Q 1.84
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1626.18 Hz Gain 4.35 dB Q 1.03
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 3137.99 Hz Gain -3.25 dB Q 3.04
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 5254.58 Hz Gain 7.35 dB Q 5.49
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 6658.09 Hz Gain -4.09 dB Q 2.09
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 12817.13 Hz Gain -8.20 dB Q 7.91

 

[jbreezy5]

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 open back headphone. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $399.
View attachment 338437
It is typical Hifiman large cup configuration that seems to assume you ear are twice as long as they really are! If find the headphone attractive and comfortable to wear.

Let's measure its response using GRAS 45CA driving by Audio Precision APx555 analyzer. If you are new to my headphone measurements, I highly recommend that you watch my video tutorial on headphone measurements.

Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 Measurements
Let's start with our headphone frequency response measurements in the context of most preferred target response:
View attachment 338438
It is clear to see the bass deficiency. Response also gets wavy from 500 Hz to 1 kHz and then we have some short fall in lower treble. Response then becomes cyclical with peaks that exceed our target. Net results is likely a flat and slightly bright sound signature. Subtracting the two curves gives us the areas we need to correct with equalization:
View attachment 338439

The relative distortion graph has a lot of fuzziness:
View attachment 338441

The peak around 6 kHz seems like a clear design issue. But the roughness between 500 Hz and 3 kHz is odd and made me wonder if there is some room reflections. I rotated my fixture but it made no difference even though that made a substantial difference as far as reflections. I swapped the cups the other way around the distortions tracked the left channel so not a room issue. I then checked the other channel and surprisingly, was much cleaner:
View attachment 338442
Notice how at 94 dBSPL (blue), there is essentially no distortion from 500 Hz to 4 kHz. This says there is some serious quality control issue here. Even beyond that, we have bass distortion that goes out of control at 114 dBSPL and again, around 6 kHz. Latter which likely is a series of resonances, should have been found and fixed during development as it has such a clear signature.

Edit: forgot to include the absolute distortion level graph:

View attachment 338458

Group delay is messy, no doubt due to the distortions we saw above:
View attachment 338443

Impedance is flat and low as planar magnetic drivers are usually so:

View attachment 338444

I zoomed way in (inset) and we clearly see impedance changing due to resonance around 6.2 kHz. There are other peaks in there as well. So you don't even need the distortion test to know there is something here to be fixed.

Good news is that this is a fairly sensitive headphone which combined with low impedance should make it relatively easy to drive:
View attachment 338446

Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 Listening Tests and Equalization
First impression was "OK" with glassy, flat sound with a tinge of brightness. That impression grew more negative once I developed the full set of filters and performed AB tests:

View attachment 338448
The bass correction which took two filters to shape it as inverse of headphone response was a given. This added warm and by itself made a good improvement. I then dialed in the filters up to 5 and sound was much improved but still needed some work. I am loathe normally in making corrections above those frequencies but here, I found it quite useful to remove some grittiness from the high frequencies.

Once the complex filter recipe was in place, the improvements were dramatic. Sub-bass response was excellent (a surprised due to high level of distortion). High frequencies were now much cleaner and balanced. And spatial qualities improved as well which is a strong feature of these large cups.

Conclusions
Objective measurements clearly show design issues and decisions. Even if you accept the tonality as is, there is no excuse for high levels of distortion at focused energies which indicate resonances. This is topped with one channel distorting much more than the other in critical area of our hearing. So by any measure, pun intended, this is a flawed headphone. Fortunately the out of box response is not annoying and with EQ, you get a nice transformation to something resembling highly performant headphone.

I can only recommend the Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 with equalization.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Amir,

I just got into the headphone game, and before I saw this review I ordered a pair of Ananda’s on the hifiman website. They were steeply discounted at $359.00.

I also read your Arya review.

My question is, since I will be using EQ, would you recommend that I stay with the Anandas, or should I upgrade to the Arya, which I believe are also on sale at $599.00?

I have a Rogue Audio RH-5 headphone amp to drive them.

 

[Dz1]

Amir,

I just got into the headphone game, and before I saw this review I ordered a pair of Ananda’s on the hifiman website. They were steeply discounted at $359.00.

I also read your Arya review.

My question is, since I will be using EQ, would you recommend that I stay with the Anandas, or should I upgrade to the Arya, which I believe are also on sale at $599.00?

I have a Rogue Audio RH-5 headphone amp to drive them.

I haven't heard the Arya but i would consider upgrading to the much cheaper he400se, or he400s if you can find it, as they are way better than these awful headphones. I got suckered into buying the Anandas by the many dishonest headphone reviewers on YouTube and elsewhere who all said these Anandas were good, but the survey on this website tells the truth.

 

[IXOYE]

My question is, since I will be using EQ, would you recommend that I stay with the Anandas, or should I upgrade to the Arya, which I believe are also on sale at $599.00?

I have owned both and I thought Ananda sounded the best, Arya was too bright for me, even after EQ.

 

[Blorg]

I haven't heard the Arya but i would consider upgrading to the much cheaper he400se, or he400s if you can find it, as they are way better than these awful headphones. I got suckered into buying the Anandas by the many dishonest headphone reviewers on YouTube and elsewhere who all said these Anandas were good, but the survey on this website tells the truth.

I have both and for me the Ananda (either OG, Stealth or Nano) is way ahead of the HE400SE. HE400SE is a remarkable headphone for $100 but the Anandas for me have much better soundstage and all but the Nano in particular a more natural tuning. Much better bass too. More comfortable with the suspension strap and big cups. This isn't to take away from the HE400SE, it's great too, although to be honest I'm surprised you'd like the HE400SE so much while hating on the Ananda, while I do think the Ananda is better, they do have a very similar sound signature.

 

[Dz1]

I have both and for me the Ananda (either OG, Stealth or Nano) is way ahead of the HE400SE. HE400SE is a remarkable headphone for $100 but the Anandas for me have much better soundstage and all but the Nano in particular a more natural tuning. Much better bass too. More comfortable with the suspension strap and big cups. This isn't to take away from the HE400SE, it's great too, although to be honest I'm surprised you'd like the HE400SE so much while hating on the Ananda, while I do think the Ananda is better, they do have a very similar sound signature.

You shouldn't be surprised if you look at the ratings on this website of the two headphones. The Ananda is one of the lowest rated headphones and he400se is one of the highest rated by members of this website. I also just bought the Aune Ar5000 thanks to the voters here and that turned out to be exceptional as well. I have found the ratings of members here to be very accurate.

 

[Blorg]

You shouldn't be surprised if you look at the ratings on this website of the two headphones. The Ananda is one of the lowest rated headphones and he400se is one of the highest rated by members of this website. I also just bought the Aune Ar5000 thanks to the voters here and that turned out to be exceptional as well. I have found the ratings of members here to be very accurate.

Right, so it's rated low by people who have never heard it. The polls on here are totally pointless, people vote not based on having actually heard the thing but on what they think about it based on Amir's take on it.

What was your personal feeling on what was wrong with the Ananda Stealth? It has better bass extension and better soundstage than the HE400SE. Did you find it too bright? That would be valid, I could see that. Subjectively I find the Ananda more comfortable but I could understand someone wanting something with smaller cups. Ananda is easier to drive. Other than that, it is extremely similar in terms of sound signature so it is genuinely strange to me that you'd be so virulently dumping on one while praising the other. I have both of them, I like both of them, I think the Ananda is better.

 

[majingotan]

Right, so it's rated low by people who have never heard it. The polls on here are totally pointless, people vote not based on having actually heard the thing but on what they think about it based on Amir's take on it.

No. It's rated because the distortion profile in the midrange is atrocious for a planar magnetic headphone of its asking price

 

[Dz1]

Right, so it's rated low by people who have never heard it. The polls on here are totally pointless, people vote not based on having actually heard the thing but on what they think about it based on Amir's take on it.

Personally, I only vote on headphones that I've tried. There's no need to vote on headphones I have never tried because I can see the results of the poll without voting. Also, let's not forget that Amir actually recommended this crappy headphone to his readers, but they weren't swayed by his writings and still voted it as one of the worse headphones on here. I bought two headphones based on the voting on here and both turned out to be among the best headphones I ever bought.

What was your personal feeling on what was wrong with the Ananda Stealth? It has better bass extension and better soundstage than the HE400SE. Did you find it too bright? That would be valid, I could see that. Subjectively I find the Ananda more comfortable but I could understand someone wanting something with smaller cups. Ananda is easier to drive. Other than that, it is extremely similar in terms of sound signature so it is genuinely strange to me that you'd be so virulently dumping on one while praising the other. I have both of them, I like both of them, I think the Ananda is better.

My feelings on the Ananda was that it was sibilant and there was something wrong with the treble. It was very unengaging and boring to listen to as it seemed like there was not enough bass. Or maybe there was enough bass but it was drowned out by too much treble.

 

[CedarX]

Personally, I only vote on headphones that I've tried. There's no need to vote on headphones I have never tried because I can see the results of the poll without voting.

Reads weird… If everybody follows your advice, polls won’t show any result… ever!

 

[Blorg]

No. It's rated because the distortion profile in the midrange is atrocious for a planar magnetic headphone of its asking price

Distortion that only Amir seems to measure, and no-one can hear (not even Amir).

Ananda

back to HIFIMAN back to measurements home published: June-21-2018, updated: Jun-5-2019 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons fl…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Bear in mind even 94dB in the mids (the lowest level Amir measures at) is a full 10dB over a safe listening level, which is 80-85dB A-weighted. The highest level is 1,000x the power of a safe listening level. That means that level in the mids, you can have more in the bass as we are less sensitive there. I'm never going to be listening to stuff with 94dB+ in that region, it's not safe to do so.

It's also highly selective, you have this sort of bass distortion from Sennheiser with no comments on the graph, literally off the charts, 5-6x higher:

And the Sennheisers are also much more rolled-off in the bass stock and NEED significantly more boosting in EQ than the Ananda does. I can actually get the bass going farty on the HD600/HD650 after EQ, it does not do this on the Ananda, it's much cleaner.

IDK what to say, I have actually heard these and for me, there's no distortion whatsoever at my listening level, with or without EQ. I have or had all these headphones, I'm not just extrapolating and parroting what I've read online. So this review just doesn't gel with my actual experience of these headphones.

Distortion which isn't audible I just don't consider a problem. Tonality is much more important, as the science tells us, and these headphones have good tonality with great clean bass extension.

If I increase the volume to a volume much higher than I would ever actually use for listening, to a point it would be damaging to my hearing, and deliberately create a seal break- then I can hear distortion.

So there is distortion with these, in a usage case that I will simply never use. For me, that's not a problem.

It's the exact same thing with the distortion/clipping on the Focal Clear and Utopia, it only occurs at a level far beyond what I'd listen at. I have tested mine with low bass tones and it's definitely there, but only at a level way beyond what I'd consider a safe or comfortable listening level. The Focals also do much better than the HD600/HD650 in the bass, right up to the point they clip. Which is higher than I'll ever listen so a non-issue.

So maybe this is an issue for those of you that are listening way above safe listening levels. If you want to blast it, sure, you need to consider these things. It's a total non-issue for me as I don't listen at those levels and will never listen at those levels.

 

[OK1]

Gave up on planers years ago.

Please why? Would be good to understand why, so I may learn from your experience, opinions. What do you listen to now?

 

[OK1]

Distortion that only Amir seems to measure, and no-one can hear (not even Amir).
View attachment 386655

Ananda

back to HIFIMAN back to measurements home published: June-21-2018, updated: Jun-5-2019 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons fl…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Bear in mind even 94dB in the mids (the lowest level Amir measures at) is a full 10dB over a safe listening level, which is 80-85dB A-weighted. The highest level is 1,000x the power of a safe listening level. That means that level in the mids, you can have more in the bass as we are less sensitive there. I'm never going to be listening to stuff with 94dB+ in that region, it's not safe to do so.

It's also highly selective, you have this sort of bass distortion from Sennheiser with no comments on the graph, literally off the charts, 5-6x higher:
View attachment 386656View attachment 386657
And the Sennheisers are also much more rolled-off in the bass stock and NEED significantly more boosting in EQ than the Ananda does. I can actually get the bass going farty on the HD600/HD650 after EQ, it does not do this on the Ananda, it's much cleaner.

IDK what to say, I have actually heard these and for me, there's no distortion whatsoever at my listening level, with or without EQ. I have or had all these headphones, I'm not just extrapolating and parroting what I've read online. So this review just doesn't gel with my actual experience of these headphones.

Distortion which isn't audible I just don't consider a problem. Tonality is much more important, as the science tells us, and these headphones have good tonality with great clean bass extension.

If I increase the volume to a volume much higher than I would ever actually use for listening, to a point it would be damaging to my hearing, and deliberately create a seal break- then I can hear distortion.

So there is distortion with these, in a usage case that I will simply never use. For me, that's not a problem.

It's the exact same thing with the distortion/clipping on the Focal Clear and Utopia, it only occurs at a level far beyond what I'd listen at. I have tested mine with low bass tones and it's definitely there, but only at a level way beyond what I'd consider a safe or comfortable listening level. The Focals also do much better than the HD600/HD650 in the bass, right up to the point they clip. Which is higher than I'll ever listen so a non-issue.

So maybe this is an issue for those of you that are listening way above safe listening levels. If you want to blast it, sure, you need to consider these things. It's a total non-issue for me as I don't listen at those levels and will never listen at those levels.

There will always be a debate as to the relevance of measurements, i.e. at what point do measured anomalies become audible.

With DAC's we have reached the point where almost any DAC released today is acceptable, and the war over increasingly better TND+N(SINAD) is kind of pointless, and the difference between one good measuring DAC, and another is academic, the all sound OK, beyond some threshold.

But we also must recognise the value of measurements, which have largely contributed to the improvement in DACs. And the quality control loopback from independent evaluators like AmirM, to keep manufacturers honest.

I hear all the good points you have raised, about certain levels of distortion as being inaudible. Nevertheless, these measurements help to separate the good enough from the best. And they have value, from that benefit, of being able to compare - which product is better., in each area of measurement.

The points you have raised are also valid, and well received. Thank you.

I think we have to give AmirM some slack, he's human. He already does all these reviews for our benefit, for no financial gain, so if he did not include the same comments on the bass distortion of the Sennheiser HD 600, we should be able to overlook that. The important thing is he has presented the distortion measurements as objectively as he can, and we can compare for ourselves. So his comments are just highlights and I do not think he has any bias, towards any headphone.

What is instructive for me, is how much better IEM's seem to measure in distortion, compared to over the ear headphones. What is that all about? Should we be buying IEM's instead of headphones, or is that difference in distortion also not audible, and irrelevant?