Hifiman Ananda Review (headphone)

[KiyPhi]

I saw those too. As I noted in the review, no amount of pushing against the pads generated the sub-bass results they show. In addition, in listening tests the sub-bass is just not there. So I have good confidence in my measurements.

Odd. Maybe it is a head to head fit thing because my Ananda have similar loudness all the way down to 20Hz as my Sundara and the HE6SE I sent you. I primarily use these because of the wonderful comfort and I find the sound to be pleasing both with and without EQ.

Hifiman headphones tend to exhibit a bump then sharp drop when their seal is broken strongly and only a mild roll off when the seal is only lightly compromised. Here is a video example (should be timestamped) of what an extreme example looks like.

 

[crinacle]

I have a complete playlist of files with significant content between 20 and 40 Hz. This is why I discuss sub-bass performance almost all the time in my headphone reviews. It is an area that a good headphone can easily outperform even the largest tower speakers with flat response down to subsonics. It is an absolute delight when the headphone can reproduce such low bass. It is an entirely different animal than a sub in a room.

My point was more about under 30Hz being insignificant rather than the entire range of 20-40 being so. I do agree that 30-40Hz is absolutely crucial (at least for speakers, I've never been very satisfied with any headphone in this regard) but once you go below 30 that's where the missing fundamental effect really kicks into high gear.

Anyways not a topic I want to dive into here, now I'm more concerned with measurement integrity.

 

[Cahudson42]

Hmmm.. Sounds like a case may be being made for adding N90Q-like adaptive DSP 'room compensation'

Three beeps - your seal is bad.. (among many others - like: 5 beeps - 'SPL measured exceeding 104db.. Hearing damage in xx minutes!')..

We have seen what active DSP has done for speakers with Genelec etc. But it's been barely touched in headphones..

 

[_listener_]

To everyone concluding that lack of proper seal must have caused the bass droop at 40 Hz, how do you explain this data from Solderdude?
View attachment 122863

All I can see is you proving those saying the measurements were done without a perfect seal to be correct. The air gap behavior shows up at the exact same frequency.

None of us are saying that perfect seal is integral to the sonic experience, as solderdude says, but ideally, a controlled measurement would represent the ideal coupling to the head.

 

[the_brunx]

is there a company that has more what looks like paid reviewers and shills online more than Hifiman?

 

[KiyPhi]

is there a company that has more what looks like paid reviewers and shills online more than Hifiman?

I'm not much for most online reviews but the Sundara and Ananda are good headphones. Despite what Amir recommends, I can't say I like the HE6 or SE sonically. Though to directly respond, Raycon.

 

[C0B-1D3-9]

is there a company that has more what looks like paid reviewers and shills online more than Hifiman?

Pretty sure every single reviewer who posts links to products cannot be trusted fully, even those reviewers on audio-related forums. Just take every single one of them with a grain of salt then you will be good to go. It is your money and your decision.

 

[Racheski]

All I can see is you proving those saying the measurements were done without a perfect seal to be correct. The air gap behavior shows up at the exact same frequency.

None of us are saying that perfect seal is integral to the sonic experience, as solderdude says, but ideally, a controlled measurement would represent the ideal coupling to the head.

It shows that the seal does not explain the bass droop after 40 Hz that Amir measured. I'm not talking about the roll-off below 30 Hz - virtually all of the Ananda measurements show that.

 

[amirm]

None of us are saying that perfect seal is integral to the sonic experience, as solderdude says, but ideally, a controlled measurement would represent the ideal coupling to the head.

How would this ideal coupling come about? Do you want me to use bungie cord and really push it hard against the fixture? As it is, my fixture provides a far better fit than a human head because it has a flat face. When I used the B&K 5128 HATS with human-line head, the coupling was far worse on that. So clearly getting an ideal fit with a fixture may not represent how people use a headphone.

As I have explained, the proof of such measurements is in controlled listening with EQ on and off. In this case, my listening tests agree with weak sub-bass performance. If you want any more certainty than this, I don't know how to provide it.

 

[phoenixsong]

Wasn't expecting this level of distortion in a well-received planar

 

[Vini darko]

Could this variation in measured samples simply be the less than perfect QC hifiman has a reputation for? It wouldn't take much difference in membrain tension to provide significant variation.

 

[cursive]

How would this ideal coupling come about? Do you want me to use bungie cord and really push it hard against the fixture? As it is, my fixture provides a far better fit than a human head because it has a flat face. When I used the B&K 5128 HATS with human-line head, the coupling was far worse on that. So clearly getting an ideal fit with a fixture may not represent how people use a headphone.

As I have explained, the proof of such measurements is in controlled listening with EQ on and off. In this case, my listening tests agree with weak sub-bass performance. If you want any more certainty than this, I don't know how to provide it.

I agree with Amir on this front. While perhaps his measurement don't have a perfect seal, I think it's very representative of what a person might get when using them. For those who haven't worn an ananda, while the earcup size is great for ear comfort, there are two issues that arise from this shape.

First is jawline, depending on your bone structure and jaw, there can easily be a gap on the bottom, and almost certainly at the front, or they can be downright uncomfortable. You can adjust them up or down, but to have your ears centered, the bottom of the cup almost certainly sits on the jawbone at least some. The other issue for me with the Ananda is with the pads. I think it's part construction method and part shape, but the earpads have the seam on the bottom, and are thinner in the front. I almost think they shouldn't be angled at all, as with my head and face I can definitely feel the gap at the very front of the pad like Amir describes. They almost need the thicker part in the front if you think about human face anatomy as these cups don't swivel at all. The headband is comfy and light, but the lack of swivel adds to the seal issue for sure.

 

[Inazzab]

Great review, as always!

Rting distortion measurements are "compensated" (modified). So you can't compare them to mine.

But which type of measurement better represents the audibility of the distortion?

 

[antdroid]

It shows that the seal does not explain the bass droop after 40 Hz that Amir measured. I'm not talking about the roll-off below 30 Hz - virtually all of the Ananda measurements show that.

the graph you posted shows the same trend. the scale of the y-axis and coupler is different which is why it's not a total apples to apples comparison, both visually and technically.

 

[Anmol]

I'm not much for most online reviews but the Sundara and Ananda are good headphones. Despite what Amir recommends, I can't say I like the HE6 or SE sonically. Though to directly respond, Raycon.

Having a subjective opinion is perfectly fine. I still like beyerdynamic t1 in spite of Amir giving it a headless panther. I have bought products on Basis of Amir's reviews and enjoyed it. It's a guide and we can use his technical acumen.
I am not science, I have my own biases towards certain kind of sound.
Other than hard to drive, I dont see how anyone can dislike he6 or se. But hey your money, you chose where to spend it. -

 

[_listener_]

How would this ideal coupling come about? Do you want me to use bungie cord and really push it hard against the fixture? As it is, my fixture provides a far better fit than a human head because it has a flat face. When I used the B&K 5128 HATS with human-line head, the coupling was far worse on that. So clearly getting an ideal fit with a fixture may not represent how people use a headphone.

As I have explained, the proof of such measurements is in controlled listening with EQ on and off. In this case, my listening tests agree with weak sub-bass performance. If you want any more certainty than this, I don't know how to provide it.

Ask oratory1990. He has the same fixture as you, but doesn't have the coupling problem.

It shows that the seal does not explain the bass droop after 40 Hz that Amir measured. I'm not talking about the roll-off below 30 Hz - virtually all of the Ananda measurements show that.

I'm a little confused at your usage of the word "droop." The only recession I see on Amir's graphs is the one below 40Hz.

 

[faheem]

I agree with Amir on this front. While perhaps his measurement don't have a perfect seal, I think it's very representative of what a person might get when using them. For those who haven't worn an ananda, while the earcup size is great for ear comfort, there are two issues that arise from this shape.

First is jawline, depending on your bone structure and jaw, there can easily be a gap on the bottom, and almost certainly at the front, or they can be downright uncomfortable. You can adjust them up or down, but to have your ears centered, the bottom of the cup almost certainly sits on the jawbone at least some. The other issue for me with the Ananda is with the pads. I think it's part construction method and part shape, but the earpads have the seam on the bottom, and are thinner in the front. I almost think they shouldn't be angled at all, as with my head and face I can definitely feel the gap at the very front of the pad like Amir describes. They almost need the thicker part in the front if you think about human face anatomy as these cups don't swivel at all. The headband is comfy and light, but the lack of swivel adds to the seal issue for sure.

Exactly right. The mandibular angle is a problem and around the mastoid process is problematic in trying to get a perfect seal on a human head. A perfect seal does not reflect real life conditions.

 

[Vine]

amir do you care more about digging in your heels even when the methodology could have been better or more controlled/consistent, or do you care more about investigating to see what's accurate?

i thought this was audio SCIENCE review, not "whadya want a bungie cord" hour

just because a surface is flat does not automatically mean a better seal, a contoured surface is often sealed more effectively against a properly/similarly contoured surface, likely why they were designed this way

tldr what resolve said

 

[cursive]

That RTings group delay graph looks heavily smoothed, which makes it useless for detecting reflections. It also uses a radically different scale, amir's plot is only +/- 5ms, their's is ten times larger.

While I do agree the graph may be heavily smoothed, you can move your cursor to any point on the rtings one and see the actual readout. So not comparing the graph, but the actual data it seems to be radically different as well. For instance the Rtings graph doesn't go over 1ms delay until under 64hz, which we can see Amirs easily surpasses 2 and 3ms at various points throughout. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, or misunderstanding, but it seems on Amirs group delay it can have positive and negative delay at the same frequency? Or is that just due to the horizontal scale we're looking at? It seems on rtings at any given point it's either positive or negative delay in ms.

 

[Racheski]

I'm a little confused at your usage of the word "droop." The only recession I see on Amir's graphs is the one below 40Hz.

Ok we may have been talking past each other. I’m talking about from 35Hz-50Hz