Hifiman Ananda Review (headphone)

[respice finem]

The headphone or speaker is the determining factor...

And some other factors, like the form of our ears, our age etc. The "cardinal mistake" would IMHO be, to believe that we can hear everything - and many do believe it. The young ones can usually hear better than the older, but even they are far, far away from what good gear can offer today, at least at the "digital side" of things. With loudspeakers and their interaction with the room, it's a different story, but those provide even less chance of hearing differences between DACs (as long as these are not seriously "broken").

 

[KeithPhantom]

The more revealing the cans the more source components have an impact on SQ.

In general, no transducer is better than the electronics that usually come before it in terms of linear (frequency response) and nonlinear distortion. Using transducers to evaluate electronics is futile since most of the system's total distortion comes from the transducer and this masks the ones coming from the electronics upstream.

 

[Ezees]

The headphone or speaker is the determining factor in making the difference, and not the amp/DAC as long as you have a good enough amp/DAC. All the ones you listed were tested by Amir & audibly transparent. That's the good thing about getting a proven measured DAC/amp, you know that you can forget about that part of the chain, then all that matters is your headphone & speakers. So I still have a bit of a problem with people spouting stuff about the sound of DAC/amps if they've been proven audibly transparent on this site. Yes, fine, back to Ananda.

Stating an observation rather than spouting. We don't all hear the same way or the same things. No worries though, there's room for us all in this hobby.

 

[Ezees]

I could have also stated: IMO and YMMV... to all my above posts, I won't address others' who posted in absolutes.

 

[GaryH]

That's pretty much my impression of my Gustard H20 (class A also) along with more realistic vocals, when I upgraded from the Topping A90 and thx 887 and driving my HFM Arya.

You didn't upgrade. What you did was pay twice the price for zero audible gain in performance - in fact a downgrade in max power.

Balanced out:

And a downgrade in both max power and distortion (still audibly transparent mind) with unbalanced out:

Once again, your anecdotal claims have zero basis in reality, and will not be taken seriously here. This is not Head-Fi. Unlike there, we actually care about provable truth, not just everyone spouting nonsensical subjective claims to give their confirmation bias (and ego) a boost.

 

[Ezees]

You didn't upgrade. What you did was pay twice the price for zero audible gain in performance - in fact a downgrade in max power.

Balanced out:

And a downgrade in both max power and distortion (still audibly transparent mind) with unbalanced out:

Once again, your anecdotal claims have zero basis in reality, and will not be taken seriously here. This is not Head-Fi. Unlike there, we actually care about provable truth, not just everyone spouting nonsensical subjective claims to give their confirmation bias (and ego) a boost.

That's what you say. I don't actually care if you don't take me seriously, there are some reading this who will... or at least may think twice about the SQ of their chains. I'd say I upgraded because the sound quality I get with the Gustard H20 driving my Aryas is better than what I had with the a90 and thx 887 despite their greater power or gain. You will not understand that if you think all amps sound the same. No worries though, I ain't mad.

 

[Celty]

That's what you say. I don't actually care if you don't take me seriously, there are some reading this who will... or at least may think twice about the SQ of their chains. I'd say I upgraded because the sound quality I get with the Gustard H20 driving my Aryas is better than what I had with the a90 and thx 887 despite their greater power or gain. You will not understand that if you think all amps sound the same. No worries though, I ain't mad.

I'm glad you are happy with your setup, that is really the only thing that matters. I love Amirm's testing and measurements, they have been of great assistance to me - but in the end your ears and preferences are what counts.

 

[GaryH]

That's what you say. I don't actually care if you don't take me seriously, there are some reading this who will...

Then that's a problem, because you're spreading unsubstantiated nonsense to people who don't know any better, and then they'll just regurgitate the same thing to someone else, and so on.

As my previous post showed, the Gustard H20's distortion is equal to (balanced out) or worse (unbalanced out, although still below audibility) than that of the Topping A90. So, please explain to everyone here exactly what you think is physically different about the H20's output that causes it to provide better sound quality and "more realistic vocals" as you claim?

 

[Ezees]

Then that's a problem, because you're spreading unsubstantiated nonsense to people who don't know any better, and then they'll just regurgitate the same thing to someone else, and so on.

As my previous post showed, the Gustard H20's distortion is equal to (balanced out) or worse (unbalanced out, although still below audibility) than that of the Topping A90. So, please explain to everyone here exactly what you think is physically different about the H20's output that causes it to provide better sound quality and "more realistic vocals" as you claim?

This is my last post about amps, so that we can get back to the Ananda impressions. When I had the a90, the vocals' (and instruments') harmonics didn't seem to carry through as noticeably. IOW, I could easily hear the fundamentals (vocals, instruments) but harmonics seemed to be cut short, detracting from the realness of the recording or track. With the Gustard all of the fundamentals and their harmonics are easily heard and distinguished, and that is a subtle but still very noticeable difference between the two amps presentations. This may or may not be heard on lower tiered or less revealing HPs but the Arya (& to a lesser degree Ananda) will somewhat easily distinguish these differences. BTW, you discredit other readers' experiences when you say: to people who don't know any better... I believe that many people on this site are saavy and knowledgeable enough to understand what I'm trying trying to relate to the readers. Either way, back to Ananda...

 

[GaryH]

This is my last post about amps, so that we can get back to the Ananda impressions. When I had the a90, the vocals (and instruments) harmonics didn't seem to carry through as noticeably. IOW, I could easily hear the fundamentals (vocals, instruments) but harmonics seemed to be cut short, detracting from the realness of the recording or track. With the Gustard all of the fundamentals and their harmonics are easily heard and distinguished, and that is a subtle but still very noticeable difference between the two amps presentations. This may or may not be heard on lower tiered or less revealing HPs but the Arya (& to a lesser degree Ananda) will somewhat easily distinguish these differences. BTW, you discredit other readers' experiences when you say: to people who don't know any better... I believe that many people on this site are saavy and knowledgeable enough to understand what I'm trying trying to relate to the readers. Either way, back to Ananda...

I asked what you think is physically different about the H20's electrical output signal that causes it to sound better to you (you do believe in cause and effect, right?), considering its total harmonic distortion is the same as the A90's with balanced out and higher but still below audibility with unbalanced out. I did not ask for yet another amorphous anecdotal description of what you think you're hearing under sighted, non-level matched conditions.

 

[KeithPhantom]

somewhat easily distinguish these differences.

As you said, back to the Ananda…

How in the world is an electromechanical device better at objective measurements in such a way that it can be a reference for pure electronics such as amplifiers? The Ananda CANNOT reveal differences between such amps, which are both state-of-the-art, unless one is irredeemably broken (or both). Also, the actual differences between them are so close to the single-signal threshold of hearing that ANY masker will hide any differences, which in this case need to be heard in lab conditions.

 

[Ezees]

I'm glad you are happy with your setup, that is really the only thing that matters. I love Amirm's testing and measurements, they have been of great assistance to me - but in the end your ears and preferences are what counts.

I enjoy the tests also, even if I don't agree with many of the conclusions or not recommended opinions.

 

[respice finem]

It's a forum, not a cult, it's about audio gear, not religion. Nobody has to follow anything, or anyone.

 

[Jimbob54]

It's a forum, not a cult, it's about audio gear, not religion. Nobody has to follow anything, or anyone.

There are times when I'm not so sure

 

[Ezees]

As you said, back to the Ananda…

How in the world is an electromechanical device better at objective measurements in such a way that it can be a reference for pure electronics such as amplifiers? The Ananda CANNOT reveal differences between such amps, which are both state-of-the-art, unless one is irredeemably broken (or both). Also, the actual differences between them are so close to the single-signal threshold of hearing that ANY masker will hide any differences, which in this case need to be heard in lab conditions.

I see this as not about an objective measurement of one component but the end results of all the different parts and components of a chain. Differing parts that result in a whole. The source outputs to a DAC. DAC outputs to an amp, amp outputs to a HP or speaker. No electronic component is 100% accurate in it's function and adds to or takes away from the original signal. The conclusion of these different parts is what is heard in the HP or speaker and is a product of the differing parts, heard as a whole at the end of the chain (HP/speaker). There's many variables but what really counts is the end result, IMO and YMMV.

 

[respice finem]

There are times when I'm not so sure

Yes this is the fate of many audio forums, so it's always useful to remind oneself, it's about a hobby and not "life or death".

 

[KeithPhantom]

I see this as not about an objective measurement of one component but the end results of all the different parts and components of a chain. Differing parts that result in a whole. The source outputs to a DAC. DAC outputs to an amp, amp outputs to a HP or speaker. No electronic component is 100% accurate in it's function and adds to or takes away from the original signal. The conclusion of these different parts is what is heard in the HP or speaker and is a product of the differing parts, heard as a whole at the end of the chain (HP/speaker). There's many variables but what really counts is the end result, IMO and YMMV.

Do you have any idea of how the addition of nonlinearities works? Do you even have any idea of the resulting level of the nonlinearities after the addition of the ones coming from a DAC and an amplifier?

1. System SINAD will be dominated and be really close to the higher level of either noise (SNR) or distortion (THD).
2. Imagine you have a SINAD of 58 dB in your DAC and 65 dB in your amplifier. The result is around the 63 to 59 dB mark, it does not add linearly.
3. The SINAD of your headphones is way worse than the sum of the nonlinearities of electronics before it. Your amplifier most likely has a SINAD around 115 dB even adding the nonlinearities from your DAC, it is really improbable that the SINAD of the systems upstream is below 100 dB. Try to hear that in headphones that struggle getting SINAD of 60 dB most of the time.

 

[solderdude]

The conclusion of these different parts is what is heard in the HP or speaker and is a product of the differing parts, heard as a whole at the end of the chain (HP/speaker). There's many variables but what really counts is the end result, IMO and YMMV.

Sure, from source to headphone out there will be very small differences that are certainly measurable. That doesn't mean they are audible. There is such a thing as audibility limit.
In the end you are only listening to the headphone when using properly designed equipment. When one chooses to use 'effect boxes' such as filterless NOS DACs on 44.1/48 kHz, (tube) amps with intentional alterations of the input signal that some find pleasant or use an amp with a higher output R with specific headphones then yes... you are listening at a system.

 

[Ezees]

General question: Has anybody driven their Ananda with a speaker amp? Just curious as to the result. And has anyone compared Ananda to Arya? Still curious about your impressions.

 

[Jimbob54]

General question: Has anybody driven their Ananda with a speaker amp?

Why would you want to? I get back in 2009 that might have been a thing for the HE6 but that’s at the other end of the scale to the Ananda.