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HIDIZS S8 USB-C Headphone Adapter Review

vitalii427

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This part confuses me - in my case, I'm looking for something extremely simple for my HTPC: USB to Neumann KH120 (balanced preferred). That's really it, no BT/coax/optical. (I got a 9038S but Ivan does not recommend amping it due to a few customers blowing out the unit)

How does one achieve a 'no load' scenario in the real world? Keeping the DAC volume low and letting the amp do the work? I'm not opposed to spending extra on a D90, Soncoz, etc. but given real-world audibility constraints (my room has no treatments, for example) it seems like a waste of $ for the moment. I use app-based volume control, it's just more convenient and I can't tell the difference vs. every desktop DAC I've tried (Benchmark, Oppo)

Thank you!
About “No load”. In this case I mean that output of DAC/AMP connected directly to RME input. RME has 9 kOhm input impedance which is an easy load (or almost no load) in comparison with 35 Ohm dummy load. Most line input has about 10-20 kOhm input impedance. Including your KH120 so you can use any DAC to drive them. Speakers/headphones on the contrary has low impedance 4-600 Ohm and that’s a high load and you need an amp to drive them.

S8 has only unbalanced output. If you want balanced then 9038S is great choice.
 
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Zerohour

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Android or Apple? Android 9 has volume limitation which you can get around by using apps like UAPP

I use Hiby app since I don't need system-wide usage (and my portable gear are mostly IEMs, don't need much power). That direct usb access is nice for DAC testing on the phone

I mainly test on the PC though (Win10), still trying to see if there's a driver for it (so far can't find one).
 

wyup

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About “No load”. In this case I mean that output of DAC/AMP connected directly to RME input. RME has 9 kOhm input impedance which is an easy load (or almost no load) in comparison with 35 Ohm dummy load. Most line input has about 10-20 kOhm input impedance. Including your KH120 so you can use any DAC to drive them. Speakers/headphones on the contrary has low impedance 4-600 Ohm and that’s a high load and you need an amp to drive them.

S8 has only unbalanced output. If you want balanced 9038S is great choice.

I have a question. Does the S8 switch for different kind of current depending on load (no load=line out vs headphones=loaded). Does it have the same voltage out for line out (2 V) than loaded?. What kind of power or current is sent on line out?
 

vitalii427

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Thanks for measuring! Hmm, any chance of adding your MacBook's own output as well? Would be curious to see how good it is ;)
Cheers
macbook_no.png

macbook_35.png

EDIT: signal actually resampled to 48/24
 
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vitalii427

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I have a question. Does the S8 switch for different kind of current depending on load (no load=line out vs headphones=loaded). Does it have the same voltage out for line out (2 V) than loaded?. What kind of power or current is sent on line out?
1) No, there's no switch. It is a natural voltage drop under load because of dissipation on internal impedance.
2) Usually no. See 1.
3) If you connect source to an amp the source output power is very small because of high input impedance.
 

vitalii427

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Thanks! That's not quite as good a result as I expected to be honest.
I can tell you more. Despite the noise level is about -104 dB under 35 Ohm load with very sensitive Campfire Andromeda which I use quite rarely I easily hear noise.

And I have few dongles at hand: Apple Lightning, Apple USB-C and Google USB-C (V2 probably). I'm going to measure them the same way
 

vitalii427

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Apple USB-C Dongle
apple_c_no.png

apple_c_35.png

Its actually resampled to 48/24

EDIT: Fixed second image label to 35 Ohm load
 
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Zerohour

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Ok, I tested the Sonata HD Pro and the Apple dongle USB-C with a multimeter (supposedly T-RMS, but no idea if its really is) using the method outlined in this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/3sizkh
99.5 ohm resistor, 1khz sine tone at max volume for both (don't know if clipping played any part, do tell me if I can fix up my crude methodology a bit more with what I have or can acquire cheaply)

results:
Apple dongle
open load = 0.51V
loaded circuit = 0.50V
OI= 1.99 ohm

Sonata HD Pro
open load = 1.00V
loaded circuit = 0.99V
OI = 1.01 ohm

cable used is 0.5 ohm ground, 0.6 ohm tip. Touching the multimeter probes = 0.2 ohm

I suppose for line out voltage, I can just multiply the above open load value by 2?

Sorry in advance if my surface level knowledge of electronic measuring offends anyone:)
 
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wyup

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1) No, there's no switch. It is a natural voltage drop under load because of dissipation on internal impedance.
2) Usually no. See 1.
3) If you connect source to an amp the source output power is very small because of high input impedance.

Thanks for reply. What role has jack impedance sensing on S8 (and other hardware) regarding output as I've read somewhere?
 

vitalii427

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I have a question. Does the S8 switch for different kind of current depending on load (no load=line out vs headphones=loaded). Does it have the same voltage out for line out (2 V) than loaded?. What kind of power or current is sent on line out?
1) No, there's no switch. It is a natural voltage drop under load because of dissipation on internal impedance.
2) Usually no. See 1.
3) If you connect source to an amp the source output power is very small because of high input impedance.
Seems I was incorrect here.
I've just checked I here what I've got:
If I start a signal trough S8 with 35 Ohm load I see 0.978 Vrms, then I disconnect the load and voltage is 0.985 Vrms.
Then I disconnected S8 from MacBook, reconnected it again, started signal with no load and I see 1.9971 Vrms.
So I make a conclusion that S8 detects if it has the load and switch something.
 

vitalii427

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Ok, I tested the Sonata HD Pro and the Apple dongle with a multimeter (supposedly T-RMS, but no idea if its really is) using the method outlined in this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/3sizkh
99.5 ohm resistor, 1khz sine tone at max volume for both (don't know if clipping played any part, do tell me if I can fix up my crude methodology a bit more with what I have or can acquire cheaply)

results:
Apple dongle
open load = 0.51V
loaded circuit = 0.50V
OI= 1.99 ohm

Sonata HD Pro
open load = 1.00V
loaded circuit = 0.99V
OI = 1.01 ohm

cable used is 0.5 ohm ground, 0.6 ohm tip. Touching the multimeter probes = 0.2 ohm

I suppose for line out voltage, I can just multiply the above open load value by 2?

Sorry in advance if my surface level knowledge of electronic measuring offends anyone:)
Is this Apple USB-C dongle or Lightning?
 

sejarzo

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I just got the Sonata HD Pro, and it sounds like its barely louder than the Apple dongle. Not trusting my ear in testing loudness though. ...

I received the Sonata HD Pro today (still waiting for the S8), ...

I received mine yesterday and used it to drive Noble X Massdrop and Senn IE40 Pro IEMs, HE400is, and the same headphones when I connect the output of the Sonata HD Pro to a Heresy. I used the Tidal app, Windows Groove, and Foobar in both WASAPI push and event modes.

It sounds fine to me, as in indistinguishable from my Topping D30 when driving those cans via the Heresy, and it clearly sounds better with less noise than my FiiO K1. However, it has a number of usability issues, so I am curious to see if you have noted the same things.

1. It sends a big click or two to any connected device when I wake my Win 10 PC from sleep mode.

2. Those volume control buttons on the device flat out suck. The only way to effectively control volume when driving the HE400i is to set it at max and use the app volume control. It's a little better when driving the IEMs but the steps are too big.

3. It seems to click loudly or randomly drop the first 1.3 seconds or so of some tracks when starting a playlist or switching between cuts in Foobar or Tidal. That happens in both event and push WASAPI mode in Foobar, no matter where I set the buffer from 50 ms to 2000 ms. I'm not sure which mode Tidal uses when set to run the Sonata in exclusive mode. It sometimes drops a similar amount of audio when skipping ahead in a test track, or switching between tracks in a playlist or album in Tidal or Foobar.

I didn't note the problems when running Windows Groove on those same files.

I took a look at the Tempotec web site and found a driver package for the Sonata HD, so I installed that and found that I could then select the Sonata HD as an ASIO device in Foobar, and that seemed to partially mitigate the drops on 44.1/16 FLACs, but when I switched to a 48/24 cut, it was distorted. Double clicking on the entry in the ASIO drivers list in Foobar brought up the Tempotec ASIO device panel, which I found very confusing. I believe the issue was that it was outputting 48k source material as 32 bit rather than 24 bit, and it seemed to work on any 44.1/48/88.2/96 FLACs after I clicked on 24 bit output for all sampling frequencies (or at least I thought I did, like I noted, the device panel isn't a model of clarity.)

Does anyone know for sure that the HD and HD Pro use the same USB interface chip/firmware? Anyone know if the HD suffers from some of the same issues as the HD Pro with Foobar or other players in WASAPI mode? I've never experienced that problem with my Foobar installation using any of the 5 or so other USB DACs I've owned or auditioned over the years.

4. It seems to drive the HE400i adequately when playing Tidal HiFi or Master cuts, but when using Foobar or Groove and playing FLACs of those same albums, it falls a little short. (More evidence that Tidal uses some form of compression in those modes.)

However, by "adequately" I mean setting the volume to max on the device and then applying a little attenuation in the app. If I play a classical cut that is mastered at a level that results in a 600 kbps or less FLAC file, I must run Foobar at max volume and not use any headphone EQ that cuts the output by the typical 6 dB.

Thanks for any insights you can share.
 

tifune

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About “No load”. In this case I mean that output of DAC/AMP connected directly to RME input. RME has 9 kOhm input impedance which is an easy load (or almost no load) in comparison with 35 Ohm dummy load. Most line input has about 10-20 kOhm input impedance. Including your KH120 so you can use any DAC to drive them.

thanks for explaining! I spent the morning trying to learn about impedance, tricky with no electrical engineering background, but I think Ive got it within the context of audio. The only thing I'm not sure of, is 10kOhm dramatically different than 20kOhm? I ask because my KH120 can be set to 10 or 20, but I suspect the difference between them is like .00001 vs .00002 rather than 100MPH vs 200MPH.
 
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vitalii427

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thanks for explaining! I spent the morning trying to learn about impedance, tricky with no electrical engineering background, but I think Ive got it within the context of audio. The only thing I'm not sure of, is 10kOhm dramatically different than 20kOhm? I ask because my KH120 can be set to 10 or 20, but I suspect the difference between them is like .0001 vs .0002 rather than 100MPH vs 200MPH.
Yes, it’s more like the former.

Suppose we have a source which outputs 2 Vrms sine signal and it is connected to 10 kOhm load. And you want to know power and current. You can use this calc: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm

797A9E57-FF9D-42F0-9118-98153D8B3054.jpeg

FA2544C5-F9AE-467E-811D-EF84CD8A5045.jpeg
 

neutralguy

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3. It seems to click loudly or randomly drop the first 1.3 seconds or so of some tracks when starting a playlist or switching between cuts in Foobar or Tidal.

I'm getting a similar problem. Whenever I stop the music or change tracks, I get a little click/pop. Every time a track starts or Windows plays a sound, the noise floor is elevated for about half a second. It sounds like it's turning on and shutting down an internal component to save power, causing some unpleasant output at every switch.
 

Zerohour

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Is this Apple USB-C dongle or Lightning?

ah, its USB-C, forgot to mention there, edited.

I received mine yesterday and used it to drive Noble X Massdrop and Senn IE40 Pro IEMs, HE400is, and the same headphones when I connect the output of the Sonata HD Pro to a Heresy. I used the Tidal app, Windows Groove, and Foobar in both WASAPI push and event modes.

It sounds fine to me, as in indistinguishable from my Topping D30 when driving those cans via the Heresy, and it clearly sounds better with less noise than my FiiO K1. However, it has a number of usability issues, so I am curious to see if you have noted the same things.

1. It sends a big click or two to any connected device when I wake my Win 10 PC from sleep mode.

2. Those volume control buttons on the device flat out suck. The only way to effectively control volume when driving the HE400i is to set it at max and use the app volume control. It's a little better when driving the IEMs but the steps are too big.

3. It seems to click loudly or randomly drop the first 1.3 seconds or so of some tracks when starting a playlist or switching between cuts in Foobar or Tidal. That happens in both event and push WASAPI mode in Foobar, no matter where I set the buffer from 50 ms to 2000 ms. I'm not sure which mode Tidal uses when set to run the Sonata in exclusive mode. It sometimes drops a similar amount of audio when skipping ahead in a test track, or switching between tracks in a playlist or album in Tidal or Foobar.

I didn't note the problems when running Windows Groove on those same files.

I took a look at the Tempotec web site and found a driver package for the Sonata HD, so I installed that and found that I could then select the Sonata HD as an ASIO device in Foobar, and that seemed to partially mitigate the drops on 44.1/16 FLACs, but when I switched to a 48/24 cut, it was distorted. Double clicking on the entry in the ASIO drivers list in Foobar brought up the Tempotec ASIO device panel, which I found very confusing. I believe the issue was that it was outputting 48k source material as 32 bit rather than 24 bit, and it seemed to work on any 44.1/48/88.2/96 FLACs after I clicked on 24 bit output for all sampling frequencies (or at least I thought I did, like I noted, the device panel isn't a model of clarity.)

Does anyone know for sure that the HD and HD Pro use the same USB interface chip/firmware? Anyone know if the HD suffers from some of the same issues as the HD Pro with Foobar or other players in WASAPI mode? I've never experienced that problem with my Foobar installation using any of the 5 or so other USB DACs I've owned or auditioned over the years.

4. It seems to drive the HE400i adequately when playing Tidal HiFi or Master cuts, but when using Foobar or Groove and playing FLACs of those same albums, it falls a little short. (More evidence that Tidal uses some form of compression in those modes.)

However, by "adequately" I mean setting the volume to max on the device and then applying a little attenuation in the app. If I play a classical cut that is mastered at a level that results in a 600 kbps or less FLAC file, I must run Foobar at max volume and not use any headphone EQ that cuts the output by the typical 6 dB.

Thanks for any insights you can share.

Big clicks? hm...I didn't notice it when waking my Win10 PC from sleep/hibernate?, I'll keep a lookout for it, my volume might be too low on the speakers to notice

I don't really use the volume buttons, since it seemed imprecise at first use. Might need a bit more getting used to.

I don't use foobar and I didn't notice any clicking during my few days usage on the PC, might need to test it on the phone to be sure.

Maybe I'm not too attentive enough to notice these issues, I'll update if I run into any problems. Been using them for a mix of casual music listening-video-gaming on speakers, haven't run into any big issues.

The driver thing is a bit annoying, but I do hope they churn one out after CNY, its not even listed in their official product page now.
 
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