HIDIZS MK12 IEM Review

[solawind]

There is a funny part about subjectivist forums: ppl claim "measurements are nothing, you must try every IEM and decide." And on objectivist forums like this one, it’s another extreme, some folks claiming "measurements are everything; if two curves on an FR match, then the sound is divine." Both claims are wrong. That Amir curve is an average and varies from person to person to a great extent. Moreover, it changes every year, so anything you claimed was "divine" years back is not "divine" now, despite having the same ears and the same IEMs.

 

[Talisman]

There is a funny part about subjectivist forums: ppl claim "measurements are nothing, you must try every IEM and decide." And on objectivist forums like this one, it’s another extreme, some folks claiming "measurements are everything; if two curves on an FR match, then the sound is divine." Both claims are wrong. That Amir curve is an average and varies from person to person to a great extent. Moreover, it changes every year, so anything you claimed was "divine" years back is not "divine" now, despite having the same ears and the same IEMs.

But why do you think I'm just talking about reviews? I think the measurements predicted incredibly well what I find divine in an IEM,
so yes, they sound divine, because I have them and that's exactly how I like them.
And I repeat. If I also point out that someone likes a different curve, that's fine with me, but once again I don't understand why I'd pay five times as much.

 

[TurtlePaul]

But it does not sound divine. All you can say is that it is well correlated to Amir's selected target. Nothing more. Personal HRTF varies between individuals (and for IEMs to a great extent) so it is not the same. Thus having ability to EQ is important to really make any IEM "sound divine".

HRTF is just not a big factor between 200 hz and 700 hz. For pretty much anybody these will sound like they have too much mid bass relative to a flat speaker. HRTF mainly impacts 2-5 khz and spatial qualities. A 5 dB deviation from target in the lower midrange will just result in bloated male vocals.

 

[solawind]

HRTF mainly impacts 2-5 khz and spatial qualities.

Sure, it is well known "pinna gain". but I was talking about what were called €20 “divine” products, like this one https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/truthear-gate-17-iem-review.61784/ , not the HIDIZS in the review.

 

[000]

Measure the distortion after equalization; some models are not suitable for equalization at specific frequencies.

EQ With Confidence: 200 Post-EQ Remeasurements Validate That Headphones Follow A Linear Response To Equalization

Headphones are much more linear and obedient to EQ than most people imagine. The match between the calculated curve and the real, post-EQ measurement is strikingly close.

www.rtings.com

Read carefully.
Thanks.

 

[Curupira]

Measure the distortion after equalization; some models are not suitable for equalization at specific frequencies.

Amirm already measures at high volumes (114dB) exactly because of that. No one would listen at 114dB@dFBS and then EQ; the EQ parameters will just be added over the 90dB distortion behavior, making the curve approach the 104 and 114 levels. Furthermore, while RTings states is true, iems usually are very conformant distortion wise.

See the below how the distortion per volume levels of the HD 650 mimicks, at 104 dB, the post EQ results (about 8dB of subbass is being applied).

 

[DualTriode]

But it does not sound divine. All you can say is that it is well correlated to Amir's selected target. Nothing more. Personal HRTF varies between individuals (and for IEMs to a great extent) so it is not the same. Thus having ability to EQ is important to really make any IEM "sound divine".

If I could give you an unlike I would:

Correlation is a word that you do not have a grasp of.

From the point of view of a IEM pushed into your ear, Head-Related Transfer Function does not matter.

 

[solawind]

From the point of view of a IEM pushed into your ear, Head-Related Transfer Function does not matter.

Any IEM should compensate for personal HRTF to have perceived linear FR. Thus, any IEM FR and Amir's IEM target show pinna gain around 3 kHz, and not a linear response like a loudspeaker target. This gain is the inverse of personal HRTF, to compensate for the lack of a pinna (which obviously differs from person to person, and even the average curve has changed over the last few years of reserch on this topic). You can always ask if you don’t understand something, not threaten with dislikes, lol.

 

[DualTriode]

Any IEM should compensate for personal HRTF to have perceived linear FR. Thus, any IEM FR and Amir's IEM target show pinna gain around 3 kHz, and not a linear response like a loudspeaker target. This gain is the inverse of personal HRTF, to compensate for the lack of a pinna (which obviously differs from person to person, and even the average curve has changed over the last few years of reserch on this topic). You can always ask if you don’t understand something, not threaten with dislikes, lol.

No Threats.

When it comes to In Ear Monitors there is no such thing as any kind of HRTF, personal or not.

You might have a personal target curve. Quantify it. Use it.

The IEM goes in your ear and seals. The shape of your head does not count. Your torso does not count. The shape of your pinna does not matter either.

 

[solawind]

The IEM goes in your ear and seals. The shape of your head does not count. Your torso does not count. The shape of your pinna does not matter either.

Of course it counts, you just don’t understand it. You can watch this video from the current “meta” curve author about how the IEM FR is derived from human HRTF. And the more it is consistent with personal HRTF, the more accurately it will compensate for the lack of a pinna, and the more natural the sound perception will be.

 

[DualTriode]

Of course it counts, you just don’t understand it. You can watch this video from the current “meta” curve author about how the IEM FR is derived from human HRTF. And the more it is consistent with personal HRTF, the more accurately it will compensate for the lack of a pinna, and the more natural the sound perception will be.

View attachment 489776

Pardon the pun. My understanding is right on target.

The target or targets, if you insist, they are built from averages. There is no personal target until you quantify your personal preference curve. You can do that without a Personal HRTF. Just put the IEM's in your ears and quantify your preference.

In the research that minted the Harman target curve a large number of listener preferences were statistically calculated or processed making the final curve. No HRTF's were measured. The only place a personal HRTF may have had an effect is each listeners Psychological preferences. There were no ear to nose measurements or HATS sizes taken.

There may be a more reliable measurement tools possible that may show greater precision or accuracy than the GRAS 45 Measurement Hammer. I doubt it with so many personalities in the room.

 

[Bernard23]

I voted not terrible. I have them, bought on a whim intrigued by a single DD, and paid the really early bird price. I too prefer not to have to EQ IEMs as its a bit of a pita constantly changing the profiles on a Fiio dongle, but in practice the only ones I can tolerate without EQ are the crin Daybreaks. Every other iem I own needs it, so these get little use. They're actually pretty good after EQ but not worth the asking price.

 

[Avito]

Sure, it is well known "pinna gain". but I was talking about what were called €20 “divine” products, like this one https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/truthear-gate-17-iem-review.61784/ , not the HIDIZS in the review.

The Frequency Response only defines the tonal balance. The transducer's material, science and motor strength dictate the technical performance—namely, transient speed and ultra-low harmonic distortion. Identical graphs can mask vast differences in resolution and dynamic range.

While the graph shows what is delivered, the driver's construction dictates how well. Again an identical FR curve cannot guarantee coherence or timbre if the underlying material and engineering lack the requisite speed and rigidity.

 

[solawind]

The Frequency Response only defines the tonal balance. The transducer's material, science and motor strength dictate the technical performance—namely, transient speed and ultra-low harmonic distortion

ithere is no such thing like "resolution" and "technical performance", just audiophile bs words with zero meaning. What you are hear is fully described by FR , distortion and all forms of time domain delays in 99% of iems in >10$ range is inaudible.