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Hi-Fi System, How Much?

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rdenney

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I think you need to consider many factors like room size, music preferences, etc.

In a big 5000+ sq ft room, if one wants to play Hans Zimmer's symphony with front rows seats kind of dynamics with very low distortions, then maybe something over $10K would be needed....

I actually don’t disagree. But you have begun to define “hi-fi”, instead of being unwilling to do so: SPL and dynamics similar to the front row of a Hans Zimmer live performance, with very low distortion, in a 5000+ square-foot room. Lessee—105-dB peaks, 60-dB quiet bits, 45-50–dB ambient noise, two seconds of decay without echo, distortion under 1%, the lady two seats down rummaging in her purse.

How does that translate to my 300-square-foot living room? I don’t hear distortion on orchestral music (with electronic additions—though Rick Wakeman, not Hans Zimmer) played with peaks at 105 dB SPL at the listening position 7 feet in front off the speaker plane. And the quiet bits are perfectly hearable as quiet as they are on the recording, which is rarely 45 dB down from the peaks. Distortion at the listening position is pretty low, but I grant that more money might make it lower (or not). But I can’t for the life of me translate my small, relatively dead living room with a concert hall. Maybe it’s the comfy chair.

I can’t make my system as loud as a rock concert on the first row. But then I don’t want to.

Rick “thinking there’s more to hi-fi than dynamics” Denney
 

LightninBoy

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$15K is ridiculous as a minimum for "HI-FI". That's about where you are hitting the minimum for SOTA territory (for 2 channel) and spending much more is for reasons other than hi-fi sound. My 15K system would be the Dutch&Dutch 8C, and any of the 100s of DACs that are completely transparent for less than 1K. That system would challenge for the best that money can buy for any price, and leaves about $2500 for either room treatments or booze and women.
 

ahofer

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There is sort of a minimum level of quality before I want to sit down and just take in the music. I have a little system here I’m listening to with a 1987 Bryston 3B amp and JBL L830 speakers that does it. Pretty much any ol’ DAC’ll do at the front end. If you assembled this used (only way to do it with this exact equipment) would be less than $1000, I’d guess.

To do something similar with brand new stuff? Just look for the golfing panthers here, I doubt it would take more than $2000. Maybe $200 for the DAC, $800 for the amp, $600-$1000 for the speakers? What do the KEF LS50Ws go for now?
 

FrantzM

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With many Reviews touting Budget systems with great sound, I have to object. At Retail prices, IMO a minimum of $15,000 USD would need to be spent in order to achieve Hi-Fi sound, not including Headphone systems in discussion. There are many factors in achieving Hi-Fi sound, I'm just talking money spent on equipment.

What do you think?
I like to play with such numbers.

It is however important that you define Hi-Fi sound. Let me go ahead a bit and assume your views of High Fidelity, is to reproduce the signal as closely as possible to on the medium ... I am , assuming, again, that we have an agreement.

The answer is:
It depends.

So many factors.
New? or Used?
Multichannel or 2-channel?
Near Field on a desk in a small room or ?
Far field >3 meters? More?
Volume of the room?
Treated room?
Room Construction ?

...
Trying my hand on 2-channel
Assuming on a desk, near field in a very small room say a bedroom less than 10 m2 ... $1000 is good enough for a very good close to full range Hi-Fi system:. A pair of serious active speakers, Say Neuman KH80 DSP, a SVS subwoofer their least expensive when it is on sale or open box or used or .... Your PC as a source, REW for Free EQ APO for free and Peace to control it... You likely have the PC, that's all you need for source..

In a room say, up to 20 meter square ... listening distance less than or equal to 3 meters (you could stretch it). I'd go for a pair of JBL 708 with a pair of SVS SB1000 subwoofers + a miniDSP SHD Studio around $6000 if you include the UMik , REW is Free and the SHD has Dirac...
In a larger room say 30 meter square and listening distance of 3 meters, my choice would be for a pair of Dutch and Dutch 8C Studio. $9,000 done deal.
Or you could go for really stunning cheap, in a room of less than $20 meter square:
miniDSP 2x4 Studio HD $200
JBL LSR308 .........................$600 /pair
SVS SB1000 ........................$1000/pair
REW .......................................$0 (Please donate, it is a crime not too, so powerful and useful this software is)
Umik-1 ..................................$100

Stick here to learn a lot on how to optimize your system ........ $0 (You can't imagine the incredible value that this represents)

Others could come with equivalent or better systems. Or we can do you one better and double your budget for SOTA systems that would wipe the floor with anything audiophiles you want to present or dream of ...
A pair of Genelec 8341 ($10,000)
A pair of Genelec W371A SAM™ Woofer System $20,000
among other things ...
Kii BXT + Kii 3 ...

JBL M2 is by the way $22,000 it is by any objective metrics, SOTA and Hi-Fi

oooof! I'm tired

PEace
 
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Pdxwayne

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I actually don’t disagree. But you have begun to define “hi-fi”, instead of being unwilling to do so: SPL and dynamics similar to the front row of a Hans Zimmer live performance, with very low distortion, in a 5000+ square-foot room. Lessee—105-dB peaks, 60-dB quiet bits, 45-50–dB ambient noise, two seconds of decay without echo, distortion under 1%, the lady two seats down rummaging in her purse.

How does that translate to my 300-square-foot living room? I don’t hear distortion on orchestral music (with electronic additions—though Rick Wakeman, not Hans Zimmer) played with peaks at 105 dB SPL at the listening position 7 feet in front off the speaker plane. And the quiet bits are perfectly hearable as quiet as they are on the recording, which is rarely 45 dB down from the peaks. Distortion at the listening position is pretty low, but I grant that more money might make it lower (or not). But I can’t for the life of me translate my small, relatively dead living room with a concert hall. Maybe it’s the comfy chair.

I can’t make my system as loud as a rock concert on the first row. But then I don’t want to.

Rick “thinking there’s more to hi-fi than dynamics” Denney
That is why I mentioned music taste....You do know I am not the OP, right?

; )
 

BillG

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For personal audio, I can do it for under $450USD. All I need is a decent smartphone and sensitive IEMs to achieve high fidelity, full range sound.

For home audio, I've done it for <$1,500USD. However, it's not full range as I'm not running a subwoofer in the setup. It's close enough to be very satisfying, though.
 
OP
D

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Now that I have calmed down, what in my definition of Hi-fidelity. I'll give you an example:

Around the year 2005 I went to a concert at local auditorium, I wanted to know how my stereo compared. What I heard at the concert was lively, well balanced sound and loud. My stereo in my estimation was not even in the ballpark. With progressive upgrades as I could afford over the years I believe I have achieved the 'live like' sound I heard that night at the auditorium, only on a smaller scale.

There is just no way anyone anywhere can achieve the 'live like' concert sound on a budget stereo.:mad:
 

VintageFlanker

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There is just no way anyone anywhere can achieve the 'live like' concert sound on a budget stereo.:mad:
There is just no way anyone anywhere has audio memory that lasted that long.

I have to object. At Retail prices, IMO a minimum of $15,000 USD would need to be spent in order to achieve Hi-Fi sound
Are you sayin that a 14 999$ system cannot achieve Hi-Fi sound? Or a 12 376$ system? What about 13 913$? Does this price include power cables?
So I'm taking the snobbish audiophile approach. Sorry you don't like it, good bye.
Well, something is telling me that 1) Not many people there like it 2) Without any change, You could have to say goodbye to ASR soon enough.
Around the year 2005 I went to a concert at local auditorium, I wanted to know how my stereo compared
I still can't figure what kind of humour that is.
 
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Slayer

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[QUOTE="Born2Run, There is just no way anyone anywhere can achieve the 'live like' concert sound on a budget stereo.:mad:[/QUOTE]

Well i guess that would depend on what you call a budget.
I have a buddy who once sounded the way you do, till he had an awakening. He was running kilpsch Heritage speakers where he spent like $8000 on them. He bought some Yamaha club speakers for the garage and was shocked how good they sounded for like $750. He sold his klipsch speakers and SVS subs. Moved the Yammy's in the house, replaced the SVS subs with two 12'' monoprice monolith subs and two 18'' EV woofers.
( he got better sound from some not so attractive speakers costing 10% of the Klipsch speakers ) The yammy's even measured way better.

I have never seen him so happy with his sound system. To be honest, it sounds pretty damn good. It will reach any concert levels you speak of, and sound better doing it. In the end, he put money back in his pocket and couldn't be happier. Plus he learned a valuable lesson, money doesn't always buy better and klipsch was not all the hype and performance he hoped for.

So while you may not be able to get concert level performance for nothing. It damn sure doesn't take 40k to do it either. For that matter is doesn't even take the 15k you spoke of.
 
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OP
D

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There is just no way anyone anywhere has audio memory that lasted that long.

I have their cd.

Are you sayin that a 14 999$ system cannot achieve Hi-Fi sound? Or a 12 376$ system? What about 13 913$? Does this price include power cables?

No

Well, something is telling me that 1) Not many people there like it 2) Without any change, You could have to say goodbye to ASR soon enough.

ASR doesn't want a real audiophile's input?

I still can't figure what kind of humour that is.
 
OP
D

Deleted member 28849

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[QUOTE="Born2Run, There is just no way anyone anywhere can achieve the 'live like' concert sound on a budget stereo.:mad:
Well i guess that would depend on what you call a budget.
I have a buddy who once sounded the way you do, till he had an awakening. He was running kilpsch Heritage speakers where he spent like $8000 on them. He bought some Yamaha club speakers for the garage and was shocked how good they sounded for like $750. He sold his klipsch speakers and SVS subs. Moved the Yammy's in the house, replaced the SVS subs with two 12'' monoprice monolith subs and two 18'' EV woofers.
( he got better sound from some not so attractive speakers costing 10% of the Klipsch speakers ) The yammy's even measured way better.

I have never seen him so happy with his sound system. To be honest, it sounds pretty damn good. It will reach any concert levels you speak of, and sound better doing it. In the end, he put money back in his pocket and couldn't be happier. Plus he learned a valuable lesson, money doesn't always buy better and klipsch was not all the hype and performance he hoped for.

So while you may not be able to get concert level performance for nothing. It damn sure doesn't take 40k to do it either. For that matter is doesn't even take the 15k you spoke of.[/QUOTE]

Pull the other finger! :p
 

HiFidFan

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Now that I have calmed down, what in my definition of Hi-fidelity. I'll give you an example:

Around the year 2005 I went to a concert at local auditorium, I wanted to know how my stereo compared. What I heard at the concert was lively, well balanced sound and loud. My stereo in my estimation was not even in the ballpark. With progressive upgrades as I could afford over the years I believe I have achieved the 'live like' sound I heard that night at the auditorium, only on a smaller scale.

There is just no way anyone anywhere can achieve the 'live like' concert sound on a budget stereo.:mad:

So, live sound at The Bitter End, or Madison Square Garden? Maybe Humphrey's San Diego?

Your definition is ridiculous on its face. But I think you knew that when you posted.

Why the mods have put up with this thread this long is a mystery.
 

Slayer

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Born2Run or Born2Dumb whatever your name is,

I was quoting you, when YOU said in your previous post, and i quote "There is just no way anyone anywhere can achieve the 'live like' concert sound on a budget stereo"

I am starting to wonder if there isn't something really wrong with you. Why did I even waste the time and effort responding to you? :facepalm:
 
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