Help with selecting turntable, cartridge and a phono pre-amplifier

[spiral scratch]

From the Audio-Technica web site: https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/line-series/at-vm95-series

“In a bonded (or jointed) stylus, a diamond tip is glued on a metal shank that is itself glued into the hole of the cantilever. While less expensive to manufacture, this construction may increase the mass of the overall tip and affect transient response compared with a nude stylus where the tip and shank are are constructed from a single piece of diamond.”

So "transient", if I understand correctly is more in the domain of timing, not frequency. Responsiveness here is related to speed. I would be speculating to say how such a thing would be audible on stylii, but more clarity and detailed sound perhaps?

 

[JP]

It's marketing prose. If it maintains contact with the groove wall it's "reading" what's there.

 

[DSJR]

There were certainly measured differences in bonded vs naked elliptical styli, all else *hopefully* being the same...

 

[spiral scratch]

There were certainly measured differences in bonded vs naked elliptical styli, all else *hopefully* being the same...

Yes thanks, I figured there had to be SOMETHING to it. I guess when I read on various forums about bonded vs nude, the thing that most often gets talked about is tip mass. I made an erroneous correlation between that and frequency response, or maybe it was something I'd read. Anyways, I realize that there may be other factors at play here. When I look at my Denon DL-103 vs DL-103R I can see that the cantilever on the DL-103R is significantly thinner, like maybe by 1/2 but I haven't seen this pointed out in the product descriptions. I guess my point is "all things being equal" is not something that likely exists.

I'm just trying to understand the advantage of the nude stylus. I guess the response I got from JP would indicate that better manufacturing tolerances go into a nude stylus over a bonded one, and that perhaps a nude stylus may provide better tracking.

 

[waofner]

its all mechanics: stylus+ cantilever+ coils(or magnets) experience a tremandous amount of acceleration- up to 100 G.

Every mechanical system will flex!!! flex is loss of useable energy (the thermal energy is lost regarding the generator), loss of energy is loss of information.

the less energy you loose from the groove to the generator -the better.
the smaller the contact line between the groove and the stylus -the better.

goals to aim: reduce mass, use stiffer materials (aluminium to aluminium tube to dural tube to boron...., bonded to nude stylus...); reduce contact line for high frequency pickup (conical to eliptical to ML/SH........)

Ortofon Red and Blue are only basic performers- nowhere near of what is possible. AT-VM760xSL on the other hand will get you to or at least very near to the optimum(MM-Systems) for about 600€.

at least to me it is impossible to hear a clear difference between Ortofon blue and red imediatly. between these and an, for axample AT-VM760xSL or an mid-range MC system it is a clear difference for the better.

i choose my cartridges by level matched switching between digital and vinyl or vinyl to vinyl.

 

[spiral scratch]

Thanks, doesn't really answer my question but thanks anyways

 

[mike70]

Well, we can see some differences in the construction :

- Bonded
A tiny diamond glued to a shank and then glued / punched to the cantilever. Today, is rare to see "advanced" cantilever or shank materials with bonded styluses.

- Nude
A full piece of diamond glued / punched to the cantilever. Generally with much better polished surface, maybe because is easier to do.

Generally when the cantilever is a rod they use glue or when is a hollow tube they punched the stylus in a hole in the cantilever. Boron is too fragile to manipulate and generally always glued.

OK, checking that situation, normally nude have a tendency to less mass, but also a better construction. Maybe a better bonded can sound as good as a nude (titanium shank vs brass / steel) , but brands left the bonded options construction one (or more) step behind.

Normally nude styluses are thinner and with better cantilever options. You need to sound better

Also, you can check on a Philips manual (https://www.vinylengine.com/library/philips/gp-330.shtml) of their ELM cartridges (70s / 80s) how the stylus mass decreases in the nude / advanced profile stylus and between elliptical bonded with different shank material.

I think in the end, if you want to create a cheap cartridge... bonded with less diamond, basic polish and cheap materials is cheaper.

 

[spiral scratch]

Yeh, seems to be how I'm understanding this. Talking about mass is a bit of a red herring, it's more likely a tendency towards better manufacturing, tighter tolerances, better diamond polishing, maybe better cantilever construction, etc. I agree that it would seem that bonded sytlii are cheaper to manufacture, but as you said that doesn't always need to be the case.