Help with selecting turntable, cartridge and a phono pre-amplifier

[Chrispy]

They’ve taken the cueing light out too, removed the strobe light, and strobe dots from platter so the speed control system works differently too.

Looks really nice and clean if you don’t need variable speed for shellac or mixing

LOL never considered the cuing light a dj thing, nor ever dj'd particularly, just a way for me to play a record (on my SL1200mk2) in a darker room Speed controls are nice, but with direct drive not really a problem like I'd seen with some belt drives.

 

[Dovydas]

Wife couldn't wait for Christmas, so it's spinning already. Thanks for helping to choose a right thing. Any recommendation for cartridge replacement?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Cannot quite see what is there.Is not The Ortofon X good enough? A fine cartridge!
If it is Ortofon 2M Red, Blue will be an upgrade.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Cleaning the records certainly makes a difference. Regarding wear, note that a 1.5 g stylus compared to one at 4.5 g isn’t really a fair comparison, I assume. The one tracking at 4.5 g will have greater mass inertia to justify that tracking force, which makes the difference easier to understand. The destructive forces originate in the intertia ...
I don’t even want to know what happens when the lighter stylus is a bit gunked up and runs over a clump of sticky dust. Well, hopefully they won’t be buying any new records anytime soon.

Always keep things nice and clean.

4.5 gram will certainly ruin you records…

 

[Dovydas]

Cannot quite see what is there.Is not The Ortofon X good enough? A fine cartridge!
If it is Ortofon 2M Red, Blue will be an upgrade.

It's 2M Red.

 

[Heinrich]

4.5 gram will certainly ruin you records…

Exactly, I referenced a comparison of elliptical (1.5g) versus a spherical (4.5g) as to illustrate how a 'contact line' stylus would hop over previous wear. A less demanding spherical wouldn't leave a wear that severe, though.

 

[mike70]

clean records and a contact line stylus is the basis for a decent sound from vinyl.

A phono preamp with linear RIIA, short rca cables and a tt with good weight, good tonearm and you're done.

 

[DSJR]

Wife couldn't wait for Christmas, so it's spinning already. Thanks for helping to choose a right thing. Any recommendation for cartridge replacement?

View attachment 499315View attachment 499316

Dealer hat resurrected, going on and hope you don't miond the below---------

Having a turntable plonked on the cabinet and right next to a speaker of all things isn't a good move in my book. I don't care what the blasted deck is, but being the vibration-reading machine that the pickup is, once this holiday madness is over, I'd respectfully ask you to do the utmost in isolating the thing from its surroundings. maybe a sorbothane sheet or 'boots' is enough, removing the lid-cum-soundboard when playing might help (applies to all decks really, especially ones where the hinges are affixed to the solid-plinth deck-plate)

I only nag on with the above, as otherwise, you may as well have bought a £250 ProJect or AT look-alike, or a Rega Planar 1 with Carbon Pro elliptical stylus, all equally siting-critical. I love the SL100-1500 'vibe' and the arm also looks neat and not as garish to me, so in my very clumsy way, I'm trying to get you to set it up as best as you can for isolation for best sound quality.

The Ortofon pickup may not be made now, but I remember the X series of MCs as a bit 'wild' but not terminally so and actually, well suited to many pressings of yore. i can't find the video now, but there was one which compared the Rega 3 to the then new RP6 using one of these pickups and even on the YouTube codec, there was a repeatable difference, the '3' sounding more 'mechanical' (not like 'digital' was supposed to sound) and the heavy-platter and properly supplied '6' model, more able in the bass I felt.

 

[Dovydas]

Dealer hat resurrected, going on and hope you don't miond the below---------

Having a turntable plonked on the cabinet and right next to a speaker of all things isn't a good move in my book. I don't care what the blasted deck is, but being the vibration-reading machine that the pickup is, once this holiday madness is over, I'd respectfully ask you to do the utmost in isolating the thing from its surroundings. maybe a sorbothane sheet or 'boots' is enough, removing the lid-cum-soundboard when playing might help (applies to all decks really, especially ones where the hinges are affixed to the solid-plinth deck-plate)

I only nag on with the above, as otherwise, you may as well have bought a £250 ProJect or AT look-alike, or a Rega Planar 1 with Carbon Pro elliptical stylus, all equally siting-critical. I love the SL100-1500 'vibe' and the arm also looks neat and not as garish to me, so in my very clumsy way, I'm trying to get you to set it up as best as you can for isolation for best sound quality.

The Ortofon pickup may not be made now, but I remember the X series of MCs as a bit 'wild' but not terminally so and actually, well suited to many pressings of yore. i can't find the video now, but there was one which compared the Rega 3 to the then new RP6 using one of these pickups and even on the YouTube codec, there was a repeatable difference, the '3' sounding more 'mechanical' (not like 'digital' was supposed to sound) and the heavy-platter and properly supplied '6' model, more able in the bass I felt.

Hey, it's a valid point, but it's a centre speaker and it's not active while listening to stereo content. Even though I'm using Dirac ART, centre speaker is not in either of support groups.

 

[spiral scratch]

Any recommendation for cartridge replacement?

Depends on what you want to spend. The line contact stylus profile will give you a lot of performance improvement from what you have. Seems to be a lot of 2M Bronze fans around here, which would be the upgraded model from what you have. I think there's a lot of Audio Technica 540 ml fans around here too. It's a cheaper option, but that's if you like the AT house sound.

The 2M Blue stylus can replace the one on your body, so you wouldn't have to fuss with remounting a cartridge. The Red is a bonded elliptical stylus, the Blue is "nude" so less mass at the tip and better detail retrieval. It might be all you need, depends on how much upgrade-itis you've got.

 

[Dovydas]

Depends on what you want to spend. The line contact stylus profile will give you a lot of performance improvement from what you have. Seems to be a lot of 2M Bronze fans around here, which would be the upgraded model from what you have. I think there's a lot of Audio Technica 540 ml fans around here too. It's a cheaper option, but that's if you like the AT house sound.

The 2M Blue stylus can replace the one on your body, so you wouldn't have to fuss with remounting a cartridge. The Red is a bonded elliptical stylus, the Blue is "nude" so less mass at the tip and better detail retrieval. It might be all you need, depends on how much upgrade-itis you've got.

Thanks for the advice. To be honest, not much of upgrade-itis. I just want to put something more decent than the stock one and forget it. I was settled on AT 540 ml, but will consider other suggested options as well. What's AT house sound?

 

[spiral scratch]

What's AT house sound?

Tends to rise at the upper frequency range, gives it a trebly, or 'bright' sound. Some folks like it, some don't

Take a look at the cartridge measurement thread. It might help you decide what you want. It's also a useful guide to understanding how proper loading of your cartridge can improve it's response

 

[JP]

and better detail retrieval

You’re regurgitating lore.

 

[spiral scratch]

You’re regurgitating lore.

oops. So all other things being equivalent a nude stylus doesn't provide better detail retrieval than a bonded one?

 

[JP]

oops. So all other things being equivalent a nude stylus doesn't provide better detail retrieval than a bonded one?

What is detail in this instance, and by what mechanism?

For a stylus to not "read" the groove it either needs to lose contact with the groove or not physically fit. The only time I've seen a difference between a bonded and nude with as much else being equal as possible (VM95N vs. EN) it was mistracking on a test track designed to make any stylus mistrack. The bonded did slightly worse than the nude, which may have been attributable, at least in part, to its slightly higher mass.

When people talk about detail they're usually using the term as a lay-proxy for HF response. The bond on a bonded styli isn't going to have enough flexure to absorb movement from the tip, and reflections from the boundary layer seem like a rather significant stretch due to both the frequency and amplitude those would occur.

 

[mhardy6647]

Tends to rise at the upper frequency range, gives it a trebly, or 'bright' sound. Some folks like it, some don't

Take a look at the cartridge measurement thread. It might help you decide what you want. It's also a useful guide to understanding how proper loading of your cartridge can improve it's response

Yes. Count me in the "don't" camp, FWIW.

I will note that perusal of the internet will yield adamant testimony that this problem (I'd call it a problem) arises from a somewhat nonstandard capacitance loading requirement that A-T has chosen for some reason. I offer this strictly anecdotally and as-is; I've never tried fiddlin' with the loading myself as the overall sound quality of the A-T cartridges I have spent time with over (many) decades just didn't warrant it from my perspective.

 

[spiral scratch]

What is detail in this instance, and by what mechanism?

I guess I was using "detail" as the, "lay proxy term for HF response". My limited understanding of the mechanism is that the bonded tip with the addition of glue is going have more mass than a nude stylus and that increased mass would take move energy for the cantilever to do it's job with the suspension. I thought that this added mass would reduce the amount of information or detail or HF response that the cartridge was able to convey.

The bond on a bonded styli isn't going to have enough flexure to absorb movement from the tip, and reflections from the boundary layer seem like a rather significant stretch due to both the frequency and amplitude those would occur.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, it's the 'bonding' of the stylus that is affecting the movement at the tip, like restricting the movement of the stylus on the tip and maybe even the entire tip? So not so much a problem of mass but freedom of movement.

The last part of that sentence is beyond me, I don't know what "boundary layer" is and do you mean "stretch" as a leap in reasoning or a physical manifestation of something?

My understanding of cartridge mechanics is pretty rudimentary.

 

[JP]

I guess I was using "detail" as the, "lay proxy term for HF response". My limited understanding of the mechanism is that the bonded tip with the addition of glue is going have more mass than a nude stylus and that increased mass would take move energy for the cantilever to do it's job with the suspension. I thought that this added mass would reduce the amount of information or detail or HF response that the cartridge was able to convey.

I think a lot folks tend to think of the stylus tip as "floating", but it's actually the opposite - the stylus is tracing the vinyl (it is the driving force) and it's the other end that's "floating" (driven). In regard to effective tip mass (ETM), the stylus contributes only its self-mass, while the rest contributes effective mass. Hence, the stylus contributes the least.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, it's the 'bonding' of the stylus that is affecting the movement at the tip, like restricting the movement of the stylus on the tip and maybe even the entire tip? So not so much a problem of mass but freedom of movement.

No. I'm saying the opposite. The mass of a bonded styli is likely a bit higher than a nude, but the ramifications of that would only manifest in a mistracking event.

The last part of that sentence is beyond me, I don't know what "boundary layer" is and do you mean "stretch" as a leap in reasoning or a physical manifestation of something?

My understanding of cartridge mechanics is pretty rudimentary.

Leap in reasoning.

 

[spiral scratch]

I think a lot folks tend to think of the stylus tip as "floating", but it's actually the opposite

Yes, I believe I had incorrectly visualized such mechanics.

Got it (I think). Thanks for clarifying things for me

I'm still wondering then if there is to be any advantage of selecting a nude over bonded stylus tip. Does a nude stylus offer a better profile or is there something else at work here?

 

[JP]

I'm still wondering then if there is to be any advantage of selecting a nude over bonded stylus tip. Does a nude stylus offer a better profile or is there something else at work here?

The better profiles are all nude tips, and arguments that nudes may be of better quality - cutting, polish, grain orientation, wear, etc. - aren't without reason, and the "better" carts aren't going to have bonded tips.