Help With New DAC For Benchmark HPA4

[Celty]

It's changed from what it used to be. They advertise *45 DAY RETURNS*, but if you read the fine print you only have *8* days to initiate that return, otherwise they hit you with a 20% restocking fee:

"Return requests made between 8 and 45 days after the order is marked as delivered will be subject to a 20% Processing Fee*."

I've purchased a number of items from Apos in the past and have always been amazed at their great customer service and fast shipping. My latest ordering experience, however, was terrible. They misrepresented how long the item would take to reach me, it took them on average 2 days to respond to both email and chat inquiries, multiple CSRs responded and none of them knew what the others had told me. It was a CF. Doubt that I'll go there again and it's a shame, because they used to be among the best.

I just had a very different experience from yours with Apos. I ordered a Singxer SA-1 amp on May 21st. They followed through swiftly with a price match (same day). The expected delivery by DHL was June 1st, and I received emails from Apos and DHL on May 22nd that the item was shipped!

On May 24th, Apos notified me that they had done a complementary upgrade of the shipping of my order from Priority Shipping to Express Shipping to get it to me a few days sooner. I was surprised and of course pleased. I emailed my thanks, but also let them know that the DHL tracking showed the order had been stuck on hold and had not advanced from the original location. They responded quickly that the Support Team had alerted the Transportation Manager to look into the DHL delay. I received several more updates until the 27th, when I got emails from both Apos and DHL that the shipment was advancing and DHL said they had experienced a high growth of shipments from Asia-Pacific into the U.S, which had resulted in a slight delay.

I actually got the SA-1 on May 28th. The point of all this is to say that Apos went above and beyond with their responsiveness and communication, and exceeded expectations. I cannot say that about any other vendor that I have dealt with. My thanks to Bob, Darwin, and Sheila of Apos, they are great!

I'm sorry your experience was not as positive dpippel, but at least for me, they are still on top of their game.

 

[dpippel]

Maybe my bad experience was an anomaly, or perhaps your positive one was. Who can say for sure?

 

[gonzoucab]

Maybe you ordered during chinise new year?

 

[dpippel]

Maybe you ordered during chinise new year?

Nope.

 

[DACs_Lover]

??
There's no maybe. We don't have supply for AK chips anymore. But how does that matter? Be happy with D70s there's nothing wrong with it. It's essentially better than the D90.
The DAC section of the D90se is fully developed by me to squeeze the performance out of 9038PRO. Where the older dacs aren't. Spec wise it's just plain better by a long shot even leaving M400 to dust. I'm not telling you any one would sound better. You probably don't know me but technical superiority is not better sound. Under certain threshold you just don't hear the difference. I recommend going through some threads articles in the psychoacoustics section.

Mr.Yang there are so many MEGAbucks in the market like DCS, Wadax, MSB and so on.
If you max(ed) out the quality of 9038Pro. Do you believe D90se will measure better than Megabuck DACs. I have never seen SINAD value of them before.

And do you believe those Megabuck DAC are truly superior than good quality DACs from Topping. Or it's just brand image from marketing.

Thank you. I am a fan.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Mr.Yang there are so many MEGAbucks in the market like DCS, Wadax, MSB and so on.
If you max(ed) out the quality of 9038Pro. Do you believe D90se will measure better than Megabuck DACs. I have never seen SINAD value of them before.

And do you believe those Megabuck DAC are truly superior than good quality DACs from Topping. Or it's just brand image from marketing.

Thank you. I am a fan.

I have not seen the SINAD of them yet. But I'm pretty confident at least MSB is much worse. Vivaldi has higher harmonics. No idea about Wadax. I'm super curious about Chord Dave. But I guess D90se has lower noise than Dave, giving better performance. Mola mola measured here is also extremely good but D90se seems better.

 

[JohnYang1997]

@DACs_Lover https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-mola-tambaqui-measurements.10693/post-306420
There are some measurements here. But not SINAD.

 

[ShiZo]

@DACs_Lover https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-mola-tambaqui-measurements.10693/post-306420
There are some measurements here. But not SINAD.

I cannot really interpret those that well (to compare against d90se as a reference to understand how good they are). My limited knowledge of audio science fails me.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I cannot really interpret those that well (to compare against d90se as a reference to understand how good they are). My audio electronics limited knowledge fails me.

Those are THD no Noise VS level measurements but reversed. You just look at the intersection on the axis at the left.
You can do some calculation on D90se to compare. There are three harmonics at about -140dB. This gives -135dB of THD. This is comparable to DAVE, perhaps slightly better.

 

[DHT 845]

But, subjectively speaking, these mega buck DAC's are not necessary best sounding. Chord DAVE to me sounds clean but also a bit clinical, it lacks some midrange qualities that for ex. top dCS DAC's have and Topping D70s as well (IMHO).
MSB DAC's probably add distortions to make them sound "more detailed" and that is the trick / flavour, but this is my guess only.
From mega buck DAC's I like dCS very much. Also MBL DAC's are sounding great to my ear but no idea how they measure, I would like to see Amirm test of MBL 1611F DAC veeery much...

 

[DACs_Lover]

I have a DAC 3, Pre, power from Benchmark. DAC3 sounds very good when LA4 preamp was inserted between DAC <-> Power.

A few weeks ago, I tried a Chinese DAC for the first time. I bought a new Gustard x16 DAC. It impressed me. It sounds more open compared to DAC3. Maybe, it has a newer chip inside and better SINAD.

My question is.
- Do we already have a DAC that can directly connect to and drive AHB2 power amp at its best. And bypass a Benchmark preamp completely? I mostly listen to music around 85-90dB.

- If I got top DACs like Topping D90se / Oktoresearch and do a direct connect to AHB2. Am I going to have better sound at my listening level?

- or at what measurement spec, we can leave a preamp behind.

Thank you all.

 

[RustyGates]

@DACs_Lover https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-mola-tambaqui-measurements.10693/post-306420
There are some measurements here. But not SINAD.

Based on the DAVE measurements here of 0.00002% @ 1kHz, 0dbFS http://hifilounge.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/HFN-Chord-DAVE.pdf and the DR measurement of 129dB here https://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/cd-dvd-blu-ray/62-cd-reviews/843-chord-dave.html?showall=1

You can estimate DAVE's SINAD to be about 128dB, ENOB 21bit.

But, those values are prob not attained using a APx555 (could be better). Rob's own Apx555 readings are here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/page-179#post-16534545

So, I too am keen to see the DAVE's performance measured on the 555 here.

 

[linger63]

I have a DAC 3, Pre, power from Benchmark. DAC3 sounds very good when LA4 preamp was inserted between DAC <-> Power.

A few weeks ago, I tried a Chinese DAC for the first time. I bought a new Gustard x16 DAC. It impressed me. It sounds more open compared to DAC3. Maybe, it has a newer chip inside and better SINAD.

My question is.
- Do we already have a DAC that can directly connect to and drive AHB2 power amp at its best. And bypass a Benchmark preamp completely? I mostly listen to music around 85-90dB.

- If I got top DACs like Topping D90se / Oktoresearch and do a direct connect to AHB2. Am I going to have better sound at my listening level?

- or at what measurement spec, we can leave a preamp behind.

Thank you all.

IMO your highly regarded LA4 should be a clearly better pre amp than the X16.
Differing output impedances and quality of volume control for a start.

Did you ever try your DAC3 as a pre?
Even Benchmark believe the LA4 does a better job.

I've tried both methods over the years and prefer a dedicated Pre in my system.
Naysayers argue........"needless extra component" and "colored sound"
My response is..........."a crippled preamp chokes off the sound"

But of course everyone's experience/preferences are different so nobody is actually wrong.

I would suspect that quality DAC/PRE's reside at a much higher price point than the cheap Gustard X16 though......

Lastly.................try listening to the DAC3 again just to be sure you really do prefer the X16.

 

[Music1969]

Based on the DAVE measurements here of 0.00002% @ 1kHz, 0dbFS http://hifilounge.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/HFN-Chord-DAVE.pdf a

SINAD ~ 121dB to me...

 

[RustyGates]

SINAD ~ 121dB to me...

View attachment 155383

That's @ 20kHz. Need a measure at 1kHz.

 

[192kbps]

I have not seen the SINAD of them yet. But I'm pretty confident at least MSB is much worse. Vivaldi has higher harmonics. No idea about Wadax. I'm super curious about Chord Dave. But I guess D90se has lower noise than Dave, giving better performance. Mola mola measured here is also extremely good but D90se seems better.

Chord DAVE Measurements (With MScaler) - GoldenSound

Technical measurements and analysis of the Chord DAVE DAC. This is a high end DAC with some great and not so great aspects

goldensound.audio

 

[DHT 845]

Interesting these Chord Dave measurements and how it compares to my d70s mqa

Chord Dave multitone:

Topping d70s mqa multitone:

 

[DHT 845]

And Topping D90se multitone:

 

[Freddy]

OP, I would forget about the Topping and look at the Denafrips Ares. It sounds far better. Let your ears be the guide.

 

[ShiZo]

OP, I would forget about the Topping and look at the Denafrips Ares. It sounds far better. Let your ears be the guide.

Letting my ears guide me lost me quite a bit of money early on. Finally I found measurements and got an rme adi 2 dac. After hearing what properly reproduced music sounded like I never went back