Help with Discrete Op-Amps for each frequency range.

[Robson Santos]

I'm working on a 4-way studio monitor project focused on electronic music. Now I'm exploring the use of Discrete Op-Amps to maximize performance.

I don't know if you have any, but I'd like your help to better understand which Discrete Op-Amp models would be best suited for each frequency range:

- Bass
- Midrange
- Mid-highs
- Treble

I know that Discrete Op-Amps have specific characteristics that can make all the difference in sound reproduction, so I'm looking for the best options to ensure fidelity and performance.

I also welcome ready-made projects and schematics.

I know that many here have a lot of experience on the subject and since I'm a newbie, I humbly ask for help.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone could share their experiences and suggestions!

 

[Grotti]

Would you mind asking your question in English please?

 

[Robson Santos]

Would you mind asking your question in English please?

It's already been done, thanks for your attention.

 

[EERecordist]

Estou trabalhando em um projeto de monitor de estúdio de 4 vias focado em música eletrônica. Agora estou explorando o uso de Discrete Op-Amps para maximizar o desempenho.

Não sei se existe algum, mas gostaria da sua ajuda para entender melhor quais modelos de Op-Amp discretos seriam mais adequados para cada faixa de frequência:
- Baixo
- Meio
- Médio-alto
- Agudos

Sei que os Op-Amps Discretos têm características específicas que podem fazer toda a diferença na reprodução sonora, por isso estou buscando as melhores opções para garantir fidelidade e desempenho.

Projetos prontos e esquemas também são bem-vindos.

Sei que muitos aqui têm bastante experiência no assunto e como sou novato, peço humildemente ajuda.

Eu realmente apreciaria se alguém pudesse compartilhar suas experiências e sugestões!

I am working on a 4-way studio monitor project focused on electronic music. I am now exploring the use of Discrete Op-Amps to maximize performance.

Not if there are any, but we would like to help you better understand which discrete Op-Amp models would be more suitable for each frequency range:
- Baixo
- Meio
- Medium-high
- Treble

I know that Discrete Op-Amps have specific characteristics that can make a difference in sound reproduction, so you are looking for the best options to guarantee fidelity and performance.

Ready projects and schematics are also ready.

I know that many of you here have a lot of experience in this matter and as a newbie, I humbly help you.

I would really appreciate it if you could share your experiences and suggestions!

Welcome to ASR. If you search for op amps and difference you will find many discussions of op amps.

Today, op amp chips are better than discrete op amps because the individual transistors and resistors are better controlled, and they are better matched because they are on the same substrate.

Amir has even tested discrete op amps. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-opamp-review-sonic-imagery-vs-sparkos.10325/

Op amps are independent of frequency because they are linear to frequencies far beyond the audio range and have feedback around them. Some op amps discrete or chip will vary in their distortion when driven outside their linear range.

Many op amps have adaptors to different sockets, and op amps are not expensive, so you can try them yourself.

You can get the free REW software, a calibrated microphone and the famous Cosmos E1DA and make measurements at a very low cost.

Walter Jung, longtime AES contributor, has op amp cookbooks which are very useful. The theory has not changed.

 

[Doodski]

I know that Discrete Op-Amps have specific characteristics that can make all the difference in sound reproduction

Do you mean integrated OP amps or discreet transistorized OP amps on a PCB?

 

[LTig]

I know that Discrete Op-Amps have specific characteristics that can make all the difference in sound reproduction, so I'm looking for the best options to ensure fidelity and performance.

You're in for a surprise: discrete opamps are not better than integrated ones, neither when measured nor regarding sound quality. Discrete opamps can be designed for higher output voltage and/or current, but you can reach better results with an integrated opamp and a few supporting transistors.

 

[Mnyb]

... and an OP amp unable to manage the complete music range is severely broken you don´t want that. So you want the same one and if you pick a fairly modern type it wont have any sound characteristic as it performs better than human hearing abilities .

 

[Robson Santos]

Welcome to ASR. If you search for op amps and difference you will find many discussions of op amps.

Today, op amp chips are better than discrete op amps because the individual transistors and resistors are better controlled, and they are better matched because they are on the same substrate.

Amir has even tested discrete op amps. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-opamp-review-sonic-imagery-vs-sparkos.10325/

Op amps are independent of frequency because they are linear to frequencies far beyond the audio range and have feedback around them. Some op amps discrete or chip will vary in their distortion when driven outside their linear range.

Many op amps have adaptors to different sockets, and op amps are not expensive, so you can try them yourself.

You can get the free REW software, a calibrated microphone and the famous Cosmos E1DA and make measurements at a very low cost.

Walter Jung, longtime AES contributor, has op amp cookbooks which are very useful. The theory has not changed.

Yes, I will have to do a lot of research, but I see many audio enthusiasts who do tests and say that they sound better to their ears, anyway, you mentioned an important point that op amps and chip amps vary in their distortion when driven outside their linear range.

I will take everything you said into account, thank you.

Another point, you helped me indirectly with something else, about the Cosmos E1DA, it helped me a lot, because I was researching about ARTA, REW, Clio Pocket and Dats v3 and I was looking at some audio interfaces for that, thank you very much.

 

[Robson Santos]

Do you mean integrated OP amps or discreet transistorized OP amps on a PCB?

Discrete Op-Amp, as shown in the list of some brand examples:
Burson Audio
Sparkos Labs
Virtual HiFi
NewClassD (NJD)
Audio-GD
MUSES
Staccato Audio
Muzgaudio
DIYAudio (DIY kits)
GlassWare Audio (DIY kits)
Neurochrome (DIY kits)
Hagerman Audio Labs (DIY kits)

 

[Robson Santos]

You're in for a surprise: discrete opamps are not better than integrated ones, neither when measured nor regarding sound quality. Discrete opamps can be designed for higher output voltage and/or current, but you can reach better results with an integrated opamp and a few supporting transistors.

So, but some audio enthusiasts and others say they sound better to the ears, but as you said discrete op-amps can be designed for higher output voltage and/or current, I don't know if that's all, but I'm taking that reason into account and not ruling out integrated op-amps.

 

[Robson Santos]

... and an OP amp unable to manage the complete music range is severely broken you don´t want that. So you want the same one and if you pick a fairly modern type it wont have any sound characteristic as it performs better than human hearing abilities .

I didn't understand very well, it must be because of the translation, I want something that sounds good and warm and natural, I don't want the usual boring stuff, and I also don't want that added colorful digital sound.

 

[LTig]

So, but some audio enthusiasts and others say they sound better to the ears,

People claiming such came to their conclusion by ignoring science, that is not ruling out unconscious bias through level matched blind testing. If they do a controlled test they all fail to consistently hear differences.

 

[sergeauckland]

So, but some audio enthusiasts and others say they sound better to the ears, but as you said discrete op-amps can be designed for higher output voltage and/or current, I don't know if that's all, but I'm taking that reason into account and not ruling out integrated op-amps.

Sound better or are better? People can say anything they like, but without the evidence from measurements, it's just some random person's opinion.

You would do much better to stick with the science, and that clearly indicates that chip opamps are better than discrete, as Amir has shown.

S.

 

[Robson Santos]

People claiming such came to their conclusion by ignoring science, that is not ruling out unconscious bias through level matched blind testing. If they do a controlled test they all fail to consistently hear differences.

So, in your opinion, integrated op-amp (IC) is more superior than discrete op-amp?

 

[LTig]

I didn't understand very well, it must be because of the translation, I want something that sounds good and warm and natural,

If you want warm sound buy recordings which sound warm, or use EQ to make the sound warm.

I don't want the usual boring stuff,

If a neutral device sounds boring it's the recordings fault. See above.

and I also don't want that added colorful digital sound.

Audible problems in digital audio have been solved 309 years ago.

 

[LTig]

So, in your opinion, integrated op-amp (IC) is more superior than discrete op-amp?

Yes.
Edit: this not an opinion, but a fact proven by measurements. It is impossible to build a discrete opamp which is better than an integrated, because the devices are not matched due to not being on the same die.

 

[Robson Santos]

Sound better or are better? People can say anything they like, but without the evidence from measurements, it's just some random person's opinion.

You would do much better to stick with the science, and that clearly indicates that chip opamps are better than discrete, as Amir has shown.

S.

Yes, it is a point that is not wrong, I think my enthusiasm for discrete op-amps is falling apart, I appreciate it, thank you.

 

[Robson Santos]

If you want warm sound buy recordings which sound warm, or use EQ to make the sound warm.

If a neutral device sounds boring it's the recordings fault. See above.

Audible problems in digital audio have been solved 39 years ago.

like this?

 

[LTig]

like this?

What do you mean?

 

[Robson Santos]

What do you mean?

You said digital audio was solved 39 years ago, I said what do you mean!