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Help with Cambridge cxa81 and bright speaker

cobrakai

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Hello guys,



i have a cxa81 cambridge amplifier, as you may know its warm and neutral and because of my carelessness I bought a KEF Q350 to pair with, well, the mids and lows its fantastic I have nothing to complain, but and the highs? Doesnt exist, its muted….i only listen a bit of highs, treble, cymbals when I listen to jazz, otherwise there is none, rock, metal there is no treble, no cymbals at all, totally muted.



My friend told me that I need a brighter speaker like triangle borea br03 or B&W 606 S2...thats it??



What do you tell me about Elac debut B6.2 ???

I already have a subwoofer, dont need to worry with bass



Thanks in advance for any help
 

5-pot-fan

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Hello guys,



i have a cxa81 cambridge amplifier, as you may know its warm and neutral and because of my carelessness I bought a KEF Q350 to pair with, well, the mids and lows its fantastic I have nothing to complain, but and the highs? Doesnt exist, its muted….i only listen a bit of highs, treble, cymbals when I listen to jazz, otherwise there is none, rock, metal there is no treble, no cymbals at all, totally muted.



My friend told me that I need a brighter speaker like triangle borea br03 or B&W 606 S2...thats it??



What do you tell me about Elac debut B6.2 ???

I already have a subwoofer, dont need to worry with bass



Thanks in advance for any help
Hi, and welcome to the forum!
I am relatively new here so thought I would offer a few words to prepare you for what might seem to be some sharp responses to your initial post.
My impression of this forum is very good, but I have had to learn some new ideas - or put another way I have had the opportunity to be educated - by other members. I suspect you may be advised that you should not attempt to modify your perceived sound by adding different 'flavours' into your system to counter something you do not like. Rather, track down the culprit(s) and change them and then let the 'pure' sound through!
Much advice here (but you will have to read a lot!) is that amplifiers and DACs (most electronics) should not affect the sound at all, and such items can be had for relatively little money (see the many reviews). Turntables and loudspeakers (transducers) are subject to many variations and output quality, but speakers such as yours are measured here and good ones are just that, although they have differing aspects that may affect your enjoyment in a given room.
Lastly, do read all the forum topics related to how your room may/will impact the sound you hear and what steps you can take to understand and possibly improve this aspect of your overall system.
I hope this is not too pretentious, but even if it is, do enjoy the forum!
 
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cobrakai

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Thanks for the welcome.

Im completely newbie on this but do you suggest that the highs on my system is muddy because of the room?

IN this case im fucked, because its set in my living room and i have no way to do any treatment or modification....but to clarify, its a medium living room, the speakers is away from side walls and 30cm away from back wall its 2 meters of distance of each other and 2,5 meters from the listener, but i have no stand on this, its on tv rack

What i can do to solve this ?

Thanks
 
F

freemansteve

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Are you certain you have tuned the subs carefully to suit your main speakers? Strong low/mid can distract your ears from the treble.

Do those speakers have rear ports? 30cm is very close to the walls if they do.....

I'm not sure how an amp can be "warm and neutral" at the same time though!
 
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cobrakai

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Yes, i think the sub is right set, its cut on 75hz on the opposite corner with 50% of the gain, its very soft and calm and i dont think is doing any problem at all.

So lets assume the problem its the room/placement....if i get a speaker Elac debut b6.2 its front fired port so its no room dependent, is that right??

Anyway, i will turn the sub off to test if this is the problem, thanks
 

diddley

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I have the Kef R3 with the 81. its a perfect match. bright when it is in the recording.But you've got keep space between the back wall and the speakers.
Hope this helps.
 

5-pot-fan

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1 query - have you read the (long) thread on the cxa81 elsewhere on ths forum? If not it might shed some light.
Also read any reviews or comments here about your speakers.
And then - dip in and out of as many threads as you can over the next few days/weeks and see if anything clicks with you. I found the ones about room measurement most helpful (but initially most difficult to get to grips with).
 

May Kasahara

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Hi cobrakai,

some questions and tips, as requested ;)

I suspect the problem is that the low frequencies simply overpower the rest of the frequency spectrum.

The Q350s are known for their full bass!

Question: Are they driven by the amp to play only the range from the sub cut-off frequency upwards, or do they play the full range? (Which would not be necessary as the sub already takes care of that).

The distance from the wall is certainly part of the problem! Are they decoupled from the TV rack in any way? Stands would certainly be a better choice here. Or if it has to stay the TV rack, I would try something from IsoAcoustics. This recommendation is also independent of the speakers used.

The Q350 comes with port plugs. I would definitely use these in your choice of set-up. They will lower the bass range by an estimated 3-5db.

My two cents!
 

antcollinet

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In addition to what has been said - much better than trial and error by exchanging speakers, that might take many trials (especially if the problem is room or crossover rather than speaker related)

Consider room equalisation. Either in PC depending on what software you are using or using somthing like mini dsp 2x4hd or mini dsp flex.
 

TheBatsEar

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i have a cxa81 cambridge amplifier, as you may know its warm and neutral and because of my carelessness I bought a KEF Q350 to pair with, well, the mids and lows its fantastic I have nothing to complain, but and the highs? Doesnt exist, its muted…
Are you sure the speaker isn't defective? I see no reason not to have treble by default with this speaker and amp.

Listen to this:

Once with headphones and once with your speakers. Crank the treble up and down on your amp, with both, headphones and speakers.

It should pretty much reveal instantly if the speakers are defective.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Provided your speakers are not defective, there is currently no evidence that the speakers and the amp are the main culprit.

Most likely speaker placement and or room effects. Arbitrarily changing speakers without having understood the real problem is the worst advice.

Get REW and an Umik1 and collect some hard facts and then look into Speakerplacement and Room EQ (eg MiniDSP) … much cheaper and more effective and you have precise control over what is changing as opposed to another unknown speaker based on subjective opinions.
 
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cobrakai

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Im using a dac from cambridge too, its CXN V2 and play Flac files or mp3 320k.....i think its too much bass in the system really, i will find the port plugs to see if gets better.

I think thats very difficult to have a system with good bass and treble at the same time.

Thanks guys
 
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cobrakai

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Guys, problem solved

Just repositioning the speakers and insert port plug......its was in the V position with the speakers towards my face, i open a little bit aiming to my shoulders and with the port port plug it gets much better.

Now im in doubt about the stand, i cant use a normal stand....but i can put a small stand like isoacoustics ou something on top of the tv rack to elevate the speakers in 20cm, it will improve sound or will not make any difference?

Thanks for the help
 

5-pot-fan

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My take on speakers and what they sit/stand on (the base) is that the speakers should not cause vibration in the base, nor be vibrated by that base. As the latter case is likely to be pretty rare, concentrate on reducing vibrations with the base.
On anything other than a concrete-type floor try to decouple the speaker from the base. Foam of some kind or blu-tak between the bottom of the speaker cabinet and it's base are simple, cheap, and their effect is quick to realise and measure. It may not provide much improvement in any individual circumstance but is worth trying. Don't spend too much on branded items at first until you have got a feel for what works.
Getting the tweeter level closer to listening position ear level is generally considered optimum, and may well be the designer's intention. You can check this out on this and other review forums.
Glad you have had some improvement so far - keep going!
 

Benedium

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Yes. Can try different makeshift stands and isolators so you dont have to waste too much money before you are sure of whats going on. And check the speaker manual for manufacturer's recommendations for speaker placement and toe-in angle. Am sure you already know the equilateral triangle listening distance rule. Have fun experimenting.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Guys, problem solved

Just repositioning the speakers and insert port plug......its was in the V position with the speakers towards my face, i open a little bit aiming to my shoulders and with the port port plug it gets much better.

Now im in doubt about the stand, i cant use a normal stand....but i can put a small stand like isoacoustics ou something on top of the tv rack to elevate the speakers in 20cm, it will improve sound or will not make any difference?

Thanks for the help
Glad you solved it for you now. Apparently the whole exercise sparked your interest to further improve.

Let me take a guess. You plugging the port most likely helped to damp a room mode, something you can even better control with REW and a Room EQ (eg DSP, Dirac, XT32 etc) and even further improve as there are usual several room nodes / nuls, some of which you probably haven’t even addressed yet.

In addition you can also precisely answer yourself the question regarding any influences of your stands with REW, because from remotely without any hard facts, it is all wild assumptions.

Believe me and many others. The 100 USD for a UMIK 1 are well spent and by the time you find a solution here in the forum or by trail and error you will already be done sveral times over.

Just my humble well meant advice. :)
 
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