Help with biwiring logic

[sonci]

Dynaudios are some of the most power hungry speakers, still they only use a single pair of binding posts.

 

[FrantzM]

I usually have little interest in those areas. I don't pander to poor thread manners toward knowledgeable members responding with considered responses. I also have little time for demands that members meet requests. This is not a free consultancy service.

No issue with your stance up to the notion of not being a "free consultancy service" ... Which is true but the better fora provide similar or even superior services. Many come here not only to be entertained but to be educated and be able to form better opinion and make better decisions. Consultancy Service? ASR can be even better: Few consultants shops have the chops, the material, the experience and the knowledge of the collective here...

 

[NorthSky]

The question is did you (NorthSky) read that article... particularly the conclusion drawn about bi-wiring.
I totally agree with all his points b.t.w.

Yes I did.

 

[DonH56]

I have some people on ignore so think I have missed the furor, or most of it, probably just as well.

I am happy to consult so long as it does not conflict with my day job. My current rate is a sliding scale from $120 to $200 USD per hour depending on the task and hassle factor. Simple Q&A, reading proposals and reports on the low end, design services on the high end, Engineering 101 starts at $120 for the first hour or two then goes up the scale. College classes $1k per lecture with notes up to whatever the going rate is for a visiting asc prof (non-PhD) for a full class (have not done that in a few years). I have little time for consulting these days, however, despite appearances in threads like these.

As for posting info here, I will post what I know, or think I know, in the interest of being helpful. You are welcome to question the engineering behind it but it is up to you to do the research and put in the legwork to understand it and/or prove me wrong. I most certainly am not perfect but I do not have the time to go search references for basic (or advanced) engineering principles and such. I try to stick with known basic EE stuff or provide references like IEEE Standards when I specifically cite them.

As for the audibility of anything, that is up to you. I have ears of clay.

FWIWFM - Don

 

[Liberal Democracy]

Was that the Oz loon? The trolling got so bad at diyAudio, we had to ban him- and that's a site with a very high tolerance level.

edit: I took Sal's advice.

He was here (for a long time), I waved my magic wand and he was gone.. nice bloke actually.

 

[Liberal Democracy]

What’s happening in this thread is bonkers and I apologise to you all, Iv only just read through it.

@NorthSky , your being a royal pain in my arse here bob. The forum is not just a playground for your amusement, we do need to observe some respect wrt the members here and what this place stands for .

A little self control is what’s needed Bob , if you can excise that we are all good mate.

 

[NorthSky]

It's funny; bi-wiring cannot be challenged. And it is permissible to members to attack members without even discussing the post's content.
This is not a reply to you Thomas, but to the fee members who make a wrong personal judgement on whoever another member.

There is no absolute in bi-wiring, no definitive conclusion; if there are they applied differently to different people depending of the source of the articles, the scientist audio writers, the measuring tools, etc.

I fully understand the passion and the challenge bi-wiring presents to several groups of people; it is worth exploring further. Because audio science never stops @ a stop sign to remain there forever.

I'm not the person usually accused of trolling. So I see the frustration that some people can have when bi-wiring speakers are presented in various scientific applications.
What we believe is very strong, but not necessarily wrong.

 

[Liberal Democracy]

It's funny; bi-wiring cannot be challenged. And it is permissible to members to attack members without even discussing the post's content.
This is not a reply to you Thomas, but to the fee members who make a wrong personal judgement on whoever another member.

There is no absolute in bi-wiring, no definitive conclusion; if there are they applied differently to different people depending of the source of the articles, the scientist audio writers, the measuring tools, etc.

I fully understand the passion and the challenge bi-wiring presents to several groups of people; it is worth exploring further. Because audio science never stops @ a stop sign to remain there forever.

I'm not the person usually accused of trolling. So I see the frustration that some people can have when bi-wiring speakers are presented in various scientific applications.
What we believe is very strong, but not necessarily wrong.

It’s the perceived anti-knowledge Audiophile dogma that frustrates members bob, they’ve had it for years and come here to escape it. It’s hard because we want to encourage all stages of learning but at some point we ( me included) have to accept the limits of our own knowledge and not push others beyond their patience level.

Folks get irked by what they see as antagonist posting or trolling as it’s often referred to, it’s at this point it’s good to bow out and acknowledge ones limits and recognise other members expertise.

That’s all we need mate.

 

[NorthSky]

Well said Thomas, I understand.

 

[RayDunzl]

As @Sal1950 mentioned earlier in this thread...

I'm rather agressively passively bi-wired.

Earlier thread here...

Why?

Had the wire, had the connectors (both in the scrap pile), have the necessary terminals on both ends (amp and speakers).

If there is a magical unknown benefit, then I get it. If not, I can't perceive/measure a problem.

Speaker cables should be short and of sufficient gauge for the task. I have both of those checklist items covered at 5 feet and 2AWG.

 

[solderdude]

It's funny; bi-wiring cannot be challenged.
There is no absolute in bi-wiring, no definitive conclusion; if there are they applied differently to different people depending of the source of the articles, the scientist audio writers, the measuring tools, etc.

I fully understand the passion and the challenge bi-wiring presents to several groups of people; it is worth exploring further. Because audio science never stops @ a stop sign to remain there forever.

it's not that bi-wiring cannot be challenged. The fact is that the quoted articles do not challenge the views from this website. In fact the 'science' they claimed to use is pseudo science and wrong (or should I say erronious or mistaken) on a few points. It is easy to draw the wrong conclusions based on 'measured' evidence and that seems to be the case.

There are thousands of people claiming 'improved' sound this way. Cable manufacturers will endorse as they sell double the wire. Vendors will endorse as they sell double the wire. magazines will endorse, 'reviewers' will endorse for more advertisments.
Does their personal opinion matter ?
There are millions of people believing in one or more Gods, people believing in UFO's, Bigfoot, the Loch-Ness monster, the chupacabra and what not.
Tons of 'evidence' supporting claims... Tons of 'false' gospel and 'evidence' or 'research' doesn't make it more real.

If you were asked to present 'evidence' that bi-wiring makes a measurable difference then the linked articles do NOT show this in a convincing way to technical minded folks.

 

[NorthSky]

Because of the bi-wiring sensitive nature subject, I will now abstain to comment any further.
I agree with Thomas's last post.

My sincere apologies to the ones who felt offended in their scientific beliefs.
It wasn't my intention to offend anyone, only to have an open discussion without driving on a one-way street.

 

[solderdude]

Too bad... I do like to be challenged and like to see data presented from different angles and then discussed rationally.
In case of bi-wiring it is not per-se that 'beliefs' here are the issue and people should be treated gently on their beliefs.
In this particular case it was a case of data being presented that contained incorrect conclusions that envoke many subjectivists to say... There I told you so...

I don't think anyone was offended. Your later posts however looked more like trolling or playing the contrary role for that purpose only and seemed to have nothing to do with the subject. That annoyed some folks and assume you were annoyed because you were not 'heard' the way you intended.

 

[NorthSky]

It doesn't matter much in regards to bi-wiring, music does.

 

[Overseas]

Shit. I biwired my speakers. I am guilty of enjoying (by ears, you know...) them at least on par with before. Double guilty, I feel (by ears, you know) a bit more clarity in medium and treble, fortunately this subjective feeling arises everyday. Do not claim magic massive improvement.
I have no technical background and cannot imagine (I know, imagination is not knowledge) that strictly electrically jumpers are better than biwiring. Leaving aside impedance.

 

[fpitas]

Always amusing how controversial bi-wiring gets here.

 

[Overseas]

Another benefit of biwiring, it is easy to test speakers, lows vs rest. Or just to experience, play around and learn.

 

[fpitas]

Another benefit of biwiring, it is easy to test speakers, lows vs rest. Or just to experience, play around and learn.

It's harmless at least. I think people here get excited when bogus performance claims are made, or another silly expensive cable is run.

 

[Overseas]

Triple guilty, I got a 2x 5.5 mm2 cable, 200 bucks for 6m long, no oil inside (as I know) just making sure I use the big hammer.
No other sins to note, no Nirvana, no flying angels, sorry.

 

[fpitas]

Triple guilty, I got a 2x 5.5 mm2 cable, 200 bucks for 6m long, no oil inside (as I know) just making sure I use the big hammer.
No other sins to note, no Nirvana, no flying angels, sorry.

I'd like to see someone using large gauge zip cord, just for the audiophile horror.