Help unknown DAC brand

[enriqueism]

Hi everybody, this is my first post. Im looking for a budget DAC with plans to modify it (rolling opamps and capacitors). I found this on Aliexpress, I never hear about this brand (Rod Rain Audio) but It has nice specs. Any one on this forum has notice about it? https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005002902469199.html
Or I should keep my original first option FX-AUDIO- DAC-SQ5? Thanks for your time.

 

[RayDunzl]

Is this purely for experimentation, or an attempt to improve the manufactured device?

 

[Doodski]

Firstly changing/swapping/rolling Op amps can actually make the circuitry worse than using the stock Op amps.
Now that I have that out of the way.

The JDS Labs Atom DAC+ measures and tests very well here @ ASR. It uses SMD type Op amps that would require a soldering iron, solder, some liquid flux, isopropyl alcohol and tools for disassembly and reassembly. It is more work than just unplugging and plugging in a Op amp to a receptacle/socket. If you are going to roll Op amps then you could at least use solder and learn to solder while you are doing it.

JDS Labs Atom DAC+ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JDS Labs Atom DAC+ desktop USB DAC. It was sent to me by the company and is an early production sample. The product was just announced at a retail cost of US $109. I accepted the sample in the interest of getting this information to you early...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Atom DAC+ _ Shop JDS LABS

Atom DAC+ is built to pair with the enormously popular JDS Labs Atom Amp, now with even higher performance, both USB and TOSLINK inputs, and our latest upgradeable XMOS based firmware with UAC2 support and UAC1 fallback*. Atom DAC+'s subtle light ring glows when in use, automatically powers down...

jdslabs.com

 

[enriqueism]

Is this purely for experimentation, or an attempt to improve the manufactured device?

Its an attempt to improve the manufactured device...

 

[enriqueism]

Firstly changing/swapping/rolling Op amps can actually make the circuitry worse than using the stock Op amps.
Now that I have that out of the way.

The JDS Labs Atom DAC+ measures and tests very well here @ ASR. It uses SMD type Op amps that would require a soldering iron, solder, some liquid flux, isopropyl alcohol and tools for disassembly and reassembly. It is more work than just unplugging and plugging in a Op amp to a receptacle/socket. If you are going to roll Op amps then you could at least use solder and learn to solder while you are doing it.

JDS Labs Atom DAC+ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JDS Labs Atom DAC+ desktop USB DAC. It was sent to me by the company and is an early production sample. The product was just announced at a retail cost of US $109. I accepted the sample in the interest of getting this information to you early...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Atom DAC+ _ Shop JDS LABS

Atom DAC+ is built to pair with the enormously popular JDS Labs Atom Amp, now with even higher performance, both USB and TOSLINK inputs, and our latest upgradeable XMOS based firmware with UAC2 support and UAC1 fallback*. Atom DAC+'s subtle light ring glows when in use, automatically powers down...

jdslabs.com

It looks nice, I'm gona check prices, thanks.

 

[sam_adams]

Where do you think the deficiencies lie in this design that changing capacitors or op-amps would improve it?:

 

[enriqueism]

Where do you think the deficiencies lie in this design that changing capacitors or op-amps would improve it?:

In fist place I have experience with opamps of doubtful procedence, I have a FX-AUDIO- Tube-03 I'd change them with the same number parts but bought on DigiKey the result was better than de original (without measures), then changed the capacitors, electrolitics for Nichicon an not electrolitc for Wima. I perceived to much better sound.
I want to try the same process with a DAC... expecting improve sound.

 

[DVDdoug]

Most DACs are better than human hearing, even the cheap ones. You might get some noise form a USB powered DAC. The USB power from a computer is usually noisy and sometimes that noise leaks-into the analog electronics. That's usually a high-pitched whine in the background. A different op-isn't going to fix that. A higher-value filter capacitor (a lot more microfarads) might help or it might not. You might have to completely re-design the power supply filtering.

Frequency response & distortion are almost always better than human hearing so if you're not hearing noise there's probably nothing you can improve.

The op-amps in a DAC have the easiest job in the world... They are basically just buffer amplifiers with little or no gain so a better op-amp usually won't make any difference. And again, there has to be something audible wrong in order to hear any improvement.

Capacitors in the signal-path aren't too critical either.

If the DAC has a headphone output and it's "weak" or has some other problems it's going to take more than an op-amp swap to improve the design.

 

[enriqueism]

Most DACs are better than human hearing, even the cheap ones. You might get some noise form a USB powered DAC. The USB power from a computer is usually noisy and sometimes that noise leaks-into the analog electronics. That's usually a high-pitched whine in the background. A different op-isn't going to fix that. A higher-value filter capacitor (a lot more microfarads) might help or it might not. You might have to completely re-design the power supply filtering.

Frequency response & distortion are almost always better than human hearing so if you're not hearing noise there's probably nothing you can improve.

The op-amps in a DAC have the easiest job in the world... They are basically just buffer amplifiers with little or no gain so a better op-amp usually won't make any difference. And again, there has to be something audible wrong in order to hear any improvement.

Capacitors in the signal-path aren't too critical either.

If the DAC has a headphone output and it's "weak" or has some other problems it's going to take more than an op-amp swap to improve the design.

Is It better a DAC with separate USB port for data and an input for power than the ones with only one USB port for data and power?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

In fist place I have experience with opamps of doubtful procedence, I have a FX-AUDIO- Tube-03 I'd change them with the same number parts but bought on DigiKey the result was better than de original (without measures), then changed the capacitors, electrolitics for Nichicon an not electrolitc for Wima. I perceived to much better sound.
I want to try the same process with a DAC... expecting improve sound.

How did you determine it had improved after changing the parts?

 

[Dunring]

If it's to experiment, a Topping d10s used has a socket for changing it. At least if you don't like the changes you can put the stock one back in and have a nice DAC again.

 

[enriqueism]

How did you determine it had improved after changing the parts?

Plain and simple appreciation .

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Plain and simple appreciation .

Amazing

 

[DonR]

 

[JSmith]

(rolling opamps and capacitors)

JSmith

 

[JSmith]

@enriqueism ... please remove the inappropriate tag from your post;

Let's Avoid the Term Chi-Fi

I often see the use of the term "Chi Fi" to describe audio products from China. I see the intention and don't think anyone is trying to be racist and what have you. Still, I like us to show the highest respect to products from around the world. As avid readers of this forum know...

www.audiosciencereview.com

JSmith

 

[DAMUR]

Hi everybody, this is my first post. Im looking for a budget DAC with plans to modify it (rolling opamps and capacitors). I found this on Aliexpress, I never hear about this brand (Rod Rain Audio) but It has nice specs. Any one on this forum has notice about it? https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005002902469199.html
Or I should keep my original first option FX-AUDIO- DAC-SQ5? Thanks for your time.

hello i have a the rod rain da10 bought it about two months ago because of excellent specs as well and it is actually the version wich uses the amanero card 110volt canadian mains power through ups/pananamax conditioner and i have the muses 02 op amps in the unit it is a very nice sounding dac and compared to the internals of the topping dac, the topping is a huge pathetic joke from a large company that build it at a price point because they are building millions. rod rain is a yeulong/ many other names as well they just change the name on the front panel and the op amps they leave to the supplier who sells it to decide/end user i tried some nice bb op amps and found little difference i prefered the muses over them but the unit works great and prefer it over my much more expensive mhdt labs dac which is tubed and cost 5x more. i wouldnt suggest ali express they are scammers like crazy on there. buy your off of ebay and a good feedback seller. the topping is a pathetic piece of childs junk toy compared to it and you get xlr outs too which i use through my sonic frontiers line 2 preamp tubed. once you go xlr you will never go back as the noise level is so low i can pin my preamp to 99db pin the dac to max and the noisefloor is so quiet i cant even here my mains with ear to my 40inch ribbon on my magnepan 3.7is. or tube power supply. so the dac sounds great has a real nice display and i think you will be very happy with it as i know i was and the components inside are good only upgrades i could see is the capacitors maybe go with nichicons and dual power supplies and your favorite op amps but honestly the changes will be below your ability or any humans ability only on a scope would you see it so if you want to play go for this one but i think you will find your returns wont be worth the time and money because they did a real nice job - i was thinking of installing a iec mains filter but again its already so good so why bother we are human and anything below 120 for noise floor is pointless unless you want to post your scope views and impress nerds honestly buy the topping cause its a total piece of shit compared to it especially the 1970s led display that adds so much noise i can hear the numbers change through the speakers thats how poor the isolation in it is so if you want to mod to make better the topping 50 u can spend 100s fixing their piece of junk or buy this with all those things already fixed! the rod rain is a nice well designed dac ive found no one online complaining about it and i use mine as the main sound out from my computer or i use a sb live hd external using fibreoptics into the rod rain and enable the crystalizer function/enhancer to give a nicer sound field but i think im going to retire my sb live hd and just use usb direct as it sounds real nice with no dsp processing and using winamp for all my audio direct too it. best 350 canadian i ever spent and strongly think anyone would be super impressed with it compared to the big names you sometimes fine these smaller companies that can make an awesome product because they dont spend millions on advertising and dont have to design it using the cheapest components - douk audio has some nice stuff too but i think they overprice and alot dont use high end parts except for units that are just sold third party - i wish all units were sold with their hoods off so to speak and you can really find out who is making a good unit and who is just screwing u over using cheapest crap known to mand kind. it is a good unit and anyone who looks at the rod rain da10 that knows components will like it. or buy off ebay the ess 9038 pro kit and that you can make perfect use dual power supplies your own case etc and it is all top notch components heres a link https://www.ebay.ca/itm/25543916036...ic69Rs/XI9O7N8MpLwS44jmvEgi7|tkp:BFBMuOCA_NFh

or this one was my absolute dream but didnt want to source the power supplies and a case and it is a rod rain board too! link -

TZT Decoder Board Dual ES9038PRO DSD 384K /Amanero USB /Bluetooth Fiber Coaxial | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TZT Decoder Board Dual ES9038PRO DSD 384K /Amanero USB /Bluetooth Fiber Coaxial at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.ca

 

[threni]

hello i have a the rod rain da10 bought it about two months ago because of excellent specs as well and it is actually the version wich uses the amanero card 110volt canadian mains power through ups/pananamax conditioner and i have the muses 02 op amps in the unit it is a very nice sounding dac and compared to the internals of the topping dac, the topping is a huge pathetic joke from a large company that build it at a price point because they are building millions. rod rain is a yeulong/ many other names as well they just change the name on the front panel and the op amps they leave to the supplier who sells it to decide/end user i tried some nice bb op amps and found little difference i prefered the muses over them but the unit works great and prefer it over my much more expensive mhdt labs dac which is tubed and cost 5x more. i wouldnt suggest ali express they are scammers like crazy on there. buy your off of ebay and a good feedback seller. the topping is a pathetic piece of childs junk toy compared to it and you get xlr outs too which i use through my sonic frontiers line 2 preamp tubed. once you go xlr you will never go back as the noise level is so low i can pin my preamp to 99db pin the dac to max and the noisefloor is so quiet i cant even here my mains with ear to my 40inch ribbon on my magnepan 3.7is. or tube power supply. so the dac sounds great has a real nice display and i think you will be very happy with it as i know i was and the components inside are good only upgrades i could see is the capacitors maybe go with nichicons and dual power supplies and your favorite op amps but honestly the changes will be below your ability or any humans ability only on a scope would you see it so if you want to play go for this one but i think you will find your returns wont be worth the time and money because they did a real nice job - i was thinking of installing a iec mains filter but again its already so good so why bother we are human and anything below 120 for noise floor is pointless unless you want to post your scope views and impress nerds honestly buy the topping cause its a total piece of shit compared to it especially the 1970s led display that adds so much noise i can hear the numbers change through the speakers thats how poor the isolation in it is so if you want to mod to make better the topping 50 u can spend 100s fixing their piece of junk or buy this with all those things already fixed! the rod rain is a nice well designed dac ive found no one online complaining about it and i use mine as the main sound out from my computer or i use a sb live hd external using fibreoptics into the rod rain and enable the crystalizer function/enhancer to give a nicer sound field but i think im going to retire my sb live hd and just use usb direct as it sounds real nice with no dsp processing and using winamp for all my audio direct too it. best 350 canadian i ever spent and strongly think anyone would be super impressed with it compared to the big names you sometimes fine these smaller companies that can make an awesome product because they dont spend millions on advertising and dont have to design it using the cheapest components - douk audio has some nice stuff too but i think they overprice and alot dont use high end parts except for units that are just sold third party - i wish all units were sold with their hoods off so to speak and you can really find out who is making a good unit and who is just screwing u over using cheapest crap known to mand kind. it is a good unit and anyone who looks at the rod rain da10 that knows components will like it. or buy off ebay the ess 9038 pro kit and that you can make perfect use dual power supplies your own case etc and it is all top notch components heres a link https://www.ebay.ca/itm/255439160361?hash=item3b795c4429:g:32kAAOSwlGJiMg5Z&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAA4Eo3/Xu/LhjC95df9N+LkDQXbshwUs3bW8QTVoIF7uajC9Kv6IRfjMgjgmoAzi6YHgVQ5vaDYDQ0QNcRoEbaIhtCXef5IxX15GpvdL3WSX+JyAS2hv0bD10s1MBsYAR8MWbeaalwiabWY3wg3+Aa54kD/zS/ducTgoBAkGTVmHXKjqy1yLu8JkdiHFKYGEUXGype+kCDOYNqbmqon6ntb8Vc1KX+P1ejOUIq+b+lTKrj96thZr0NBB7UwW3oOg/FVFQC6wjvFibbhLfEic69Rs/XI9O7N8MpLwS44jmvEgi7|tkp:BFBMuOCA_NFh

or this one was my absolute dream but didnt want to source the power supplies and a case and it is a rod rain board too! link -

TZT Decoder Board Dual ES9038PRO DSD 384K /Amanero USB /Bluetooth Fiber Coaxial | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TZT Decoder Board Dual ES9038PRO DSD 384K /Amanero USB /Bluetooth Fiber Coaxial at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.ca

Cool story, bro!

 

[DAMUR]

hello i have a the rod rain da10 bought it about two months ago because of excellent specs as well and it is actually the version wich uses the amanero card 110volt canadian mains power through ups/pananamax conditioner and i have the muses 02 op amps in the unit it is a very nice sounding dac and compared to the internals of the topping dac, the topping is a huge pathetic joke from a large company that build it at a price point because they are building millions. rod rain is a yeulong/ many other names as well they just change the name on the front panel and the op amps they leave to the supplier who sells it to decide/end user i tried some nice bb op amps and found little difference i prefered the muses over them but the unit works great and prefer it over my much more expensive mhdt labs dac which is tubed and cost 5x more. i wouldnt suggest ali express they are scammers like crazy on there. buy your off of ebay and a good feedback seller. the topping is a pathetic piece of childs junk toy compared to it and you get xlr outs too which i use through my sonic frontiers line 2 preamp tubed. once you go xlr you will never go back as the noise level is so low i can pin my preamp to 99db pin the dac to max and the noisefloor is so quiet i cant even here my mains with ear to my 40inch ribbon on my magnepan 3.7is. or tube power supply. so the dac sounds great has a real nice display and i think you will be very happy with it as i know i was and the components inside are good only upgrades i could see is the capacitors maybe go with nichicons and dual power supplies and your favorite op amps but honestly the changes will be below your ability or any humans ability only on a scope would you see it so if you want to play go for this one but i think you will find your returns wont be worth the time and money because they did a real nice job - i was thinking of installing a iec mains filter but again its already so good so why bother we are human and anything below 120 for noise floor is pointless unless you want to post your scope views and impress nerds honestly buy the topping cause its a total piece of shit compared to it especially the 1970s led display that adds so much noise i can hear the numbers change through the speakers thats how poor the isolation in it is so if you want to mod to make better the topping 50 u can spend 100s fixing their piece of junk or buy this with all those things already fixed! the rod rain is a nice well designed dac ive found no one online complaining about it and i use mine as the main sound out from my computer or i use a sb live hd external using fibreoptics into the rod rain and enable the crystalizer function/enhancer to give a nicer sound field but i think im going to retire my sb live hd and just use usb direct as it sounds real nice with no dsp processing and using winamp for all my audio direct too it. best 350 canadian i ever spent and strongly think anyone would be super impressed with it compared to the big names you sometimes fine these smaller companies that can make an awesome product because they dont spend millions on advertising and dont have to design it using the cheapest components - douk audio has some nice stuff too but i think they overprice and alot dont use high end parts except for units that are just sold third party - i wish all units were sold with their hoods off so to speak and you can really find out who is making a good unit and who is just screwing u over using cheapest crap known to mand kind. it is a good unit and anyone who looks at the rod rain da10 that knows components will like it. or buy off ebay the ess 9038 pro kit and that you can make perfect use dual power supplies your own case etc and it is all top notch components heres a link https://www.ebay.ca/itm/255439160361?hash=item3b795c4429:g:32kAAOSwlGJiMg5Z&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAA4Eo3/Xu/LhjC95df9N+LkDQXbshwUs3bW8QTVoIF7uajC9Kv6IRfjMgjgmoAzi6YHgVQ5vaDYDQ0QNcRoEbaIhtCXef5IxX15GpvdL3WSX+JyAS2hv0bD10s1MBsYAR8MWbeaalwiabWY3wg3+Aa54kD/zS/ducTgoBAkGTVmHXKjqy1yLu8JkdiHFKYGEUXGype+kCDOYNqbmqon6ntb8Vc1KX+P1ejOUIq+b+lTKrj96thZr0NBB7UwW3oOg/FVFQC6wjvFibbhLfEic69Rs/XI9O7N8MpLwS44jmvEgi7|tkp:BFBMuOCA_NFh

or this one was my absolute dream but didnt want to source the power supplies and a case and it is a rod rain board too! link -

TZT Decoder Board Dual ES9038PRO DSD 384K /Amanero USB /Bluetooth Fiber Coaxial | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TZT Decoder Board Dual ES9038PRO DSD 384K /Amanero USB /Bluetooth Fiber Coaxial at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.ca

oh my i just actually looked at what u wanted and that units both are very poorly designed and total gabage not even balanced outs! if your looking for a sub 200 dollar dac why bother? just buy a used pioneer ht amp or yamaha it will have much better sound then any sub 200 dollar options your looking at because they actually spend money or r&d where these sub 200 dacs are designed by probably a team of 5 people using cheapest components; Board layout and power supply/filering are the most important next to component choice. the 2 choices i shown are one of the nicest board designs and products plus they are actually using 20+dollar caps each on the dacs the mcaps; strongly suggest a used home theatre amp within the last 10 years for decoding over a sub 200 dollard dac. a good dac is 3-400 dollars in components alone so be prepared to spend 6 to7 when completed but it will outperform any dac priced at 1500-2000 name branded as they have such high expenses. diy audio if you have the expertise and time plus knowledge will get you amazing sound without the crazy high prices. - china stuff is if you spend many hours looking you can find many good quality boards and power supplies already built just not implanted in a final selling product as its time consuming and expensive plus sourcing all the individual components is almost impossible in one place thats why there is amazing kits to be had and most time with high end boards they can suggest perfect cases and power supplies for the components to go with them even where to obtain them just keep in mind you have no user manual no technical support and possibly fire hazard if you dont build it right so these forums online are excellent for diy audio stuff as people are always happy to help and some of the best stuff made are built from multi sourced parts and places. audio is my hobbie and if i included my time for finding sourcing building some of my dacs would be over 2000 plus dollars but only contain 500-700 in parts, the rest is time to build them finding them tweaking them etc. im billed out at 80dollars an hour so i price my time as such most my dacs are 1500-2grand because of the 10 hours involved sourcing and building them :-} If you have the time its quite rewarding and your accomplishments are amazing if you just spend the time. My rant is done and i hope you find what you want just spend the extra money because a good dac will last you 10 to 15 years. a cheap dac will last you 10 to 15 months and you will never be content with its sound ;-P
Mike M

 

[Beave]

Dear Mike,
If you want people here to read your posts, please learn the importance of paragraphs.
I doubt anybody wants to read that wall of text.

Regards.