Help understanding how to shop for "separation"

[IThinkYouWon]

Hi all, I recently dove into the home stereo world and have been loving every minute of it!

As with anything new and fun, I'm looking to get deeper and improve the experience with some upgrades. What I've found is that I really like to be able to hear a distinct 'separation' between instruments when I'm listening to music. Problem is, I don't know how this translates to gear reviews and specs and such.

Current setup:
TT - Fluance RT82
CD Player - Sony single disc from the 90s (model escapes me at the moment)
Streamer - Wiim Pro
Amp - Yamaha AS301
Speakers - Q Acoustics 3030i
Sub - RSL Speedwoofer 10e

I listen to all 3 input types roughly the same amount, but the system was started with vinyl listening in mind the most. I don't know which part of the chain I should be focused on to get to the next level, nor which attributes I should be looking for, beyond just a general sense of 'separation' of sounds. I've looked into upgrading my stylus, my amp, and my speakers and probably will get to all of them eventually but want to focus on biggest impact first, obviously.

Any thoughts on what gear to focus on and which attributes of that gear to look for? Specific brands of amp or speakers maybe? Anything at all would be welcome.

 

[DVDdoug]

The "separation" is happening in your brain (except for left-right stereo or discrete surround sound). When you listen to live music the soundwaves are mixed/blended in the air (superposition) so any separation is from your brain.

Of course with recorded music the left & right (or surround) soundwaves also mix in the air (not with headphones) but your ear/brain can usually determine the direction.

Good speakers and a "dead" room", or headphones, MIGHT help.

Phono pickups have some crosstalk between left and right but usually it's good enough that left-only sounds like it's coming from the left and right-only sounds like it's coming from the right. The crosstalk in the rest of the electronics is orders of magnitude better than phono pickups.

 

[Defi]

Separation could mean two things: the stereo image (hearing instruments in different places in the soundstage) or the frequency range (being able to hear two instruments that compete in the same frequencies regardless of panning). This is my favourite part about listening to music--hearing all the new things like tracks in the background I never noticed or reverb trails that give a feeling of background to the music--and soundstage/stereo stuff is a lot of fun too when artists use it creatively.

Anyway, in my quest for these qualities the most important things have been:
-good flat response speakers (not hard to get these days)
-proper placement of said speakers (this requires experimentation and if you are stuck with the speakers in one spot for any reason becomes very difficult. If you have to compromise in your listening space for other uses, or other opinions, it gets really difficult)
-room correction especially if using subs or speakers that go low
-first reflection points absorption

None of these are replaceable in their roles (you can't reasonably absorb room issues at lower frequencies and you can't EQ away reflections) and each is important. No speakers will be impressive crammed in a corner 3 feet apart. Bad frequency response is how you miss out on stuff in the music. Big peaks or big nulls means some frequencies are getting masked so you won't hear whatever information they have. If you have some serious room modes pushing 15-20dB peaks that's going to be the biggest culprit. If your listening triangle isn't set up right then you won't notice any stereo effects.

The last one can be controversial, but I am hoping people will agree that it is a preference between bare side walls adding ambience and absorptive side walls enhancing clarity. It sounds like you belong to the latter.

So, in your case, I don't know anything about those speakers but it is unlikely you can't make progress by addressing the other points. I'm going to say the biggest and most cost effective first step you could make would be getting a Umik-1, REW, and learning what you're actually hearing and how to make improvements with just positioning. The first thing will be proper sub integration simply because at this point from what you've said I have no idea if you've covered this or not. When I got my subs it sounded worse with them until I ran MSO.

 

[Duke]

I really like to be able to hear a distinct 'separation' between instruments when I'm listening to music. Problem is, I don't know how this translates to gear reviews and specs and such.

... want to focus on biggest impact first, obviously.

Any thoughts on what gear to focus on and which attributes of that gear to look for? Specific brands of amp or speakers maybe? Anything at all would be welcome.

I'm a speaker designer so I tend to see problems and their solutions through that lens... kinda like the guy whose only tool is a hammer, and so to him, every problem looks like a nail.

Separation of voices and instruments comes largely from hearing the direct sound clearly. Or to put it another way, the earlier and stronger a reflection is, the more it tends to mask the direct sound. So to start out with, you might try something called "nearfield listening":

Position your speakers pretty far out into the room, and on something that is not itself reflective (like a desk), and sit fairly close to them, like maybe two or three feet. You can experiment with how wide apart they are and how much "toe-in" they have (how directly they are aimed at your ears; the treble will be a bit "brighter" when they are aimed at your ears).

The idea is to have a fairly short path length from the speakers to your ears, and fairly long path lengths for the first horizontal-plane reflections. This will push back the arrival time of the reflections, and they will be less loud compared to the direct sound. This should be conducive to good separation of voices and instruments.

If you want to step up to some outstanding-in-their-price-range speakers, I suggest looking into Asci Lab. I have not actually heard any of their models but from what I can tell they are pretty much doing everything right.

 

[IThinkYouWon]

Wow, thanks for the replies everyone. Sounds like my next steps are improving my room treatment and speaker positioning and see if that progresses me towards what I'm looking for. If I see improvements, then I'm likely on the right track.