Help troubleshooting cartridge measurements

[MMJ]

Hello everyone!

I have decided to invest some funds to measure a couple of my phono cartridges and contribute to the library. Problem is there is something wrong with the measurements and no matter what I change around it does not seem to help.

My two questions are:

What is causing that peaking just before 500hz?
Why are all the cartridges display severe high frequency peaking?


My setup is:

Clearaudio TRS-1007 into Reloop RP7000 MKII into Fosi Box X5 into Topping E2x2

- Fosi specs at 47k ohms, looking around on forums capacitance is 150pF
- I tried changing the turntable to an AT-LP120x and measured the same results
- Cable is a Norstone Skye at 0.6 meters, this is the shortest cable I have

The measured cartridges are:

Ortofon Music Red
Ortofon Concorde Club MKII (V1 and V2 are two different specimens)
Ortofon Concorde Digital MKII

- All cartridges were measured at their recommended tracking forces with no anti skating applied.
- All needles are completely new, never used prior to measurements except the Red which has around 40 hours of play


Might be interesting to point out that Ortofon specs the Digital at 20hz-18khz, it supposed to reduce high frequency noise and pops for DJ use on timecode vinyl. Seems to have the flattest response from my measurements!

If I am forgetting something important let me know and I will try to provide the information.

 

[MMJ]

The Reloop player seems to tame that High Frequency rise, below is with the AT-LP120x

 

[USER]

I have never seen resonances like those between 100-200Hz. The Ortofon Club MKII is flashing red lights and is not playing right. My immediate thought is the tone arm has problems. What is the condition of the turntables? Are they beat up DJ turntables? More, something is pointing to a super high system resonance (below 20Hz). The Ortofon Digital is especially bad. Perhaps the cartridge compliance is not compatible with the tonearm effective mass. Do you hear these issues when you play music? How is the the low end? Finally, the cables seem to be audiophile ones. You should try switching them with something short and cheap. Could they be trying to do funny stuff and have ultra high capacitance?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Such behaviour reminds me on some tonearm and cartridges with serious resonance problems. Ortofon standard OM series have it and some light tonearms.

If you have same problem on different tonearm , I would blame the cartridge
Example if a Ortofon cartridge I know has a resonance issue close to 500hz, Ortofon tried to correct it in later models

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

Hi Jimi Thanks and good point! I’m just outside London so posting to a uk tester is preferred. Here’s my Technics operation: https://www.decknics.co.uk/ A local tester who can pop over to the workshop is also welcome! Address is listed on the website. Regarding the NOS V15 you’re not going...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[MMJ]

Both the Reloop and the AT turntables are home use only, in great condition.

One of the Club pickups is most certainly broken, shows that massive resonance on both turntables, and by looking at the measurements the Reloop turntable corresponds with the Music Bronze measured previously here on ASR. Only problem is I don't know how it was damaged.

Will try a generic RCA cable, although the cheap ones I have are much longer.

Ortofon themselves recommend these cartridges for these turntables, I am pretty certain at this point that the cartridge design has some serious flaws. I have 2 Clubs, 2 Digitals and the Music Red on hand. All exhibit the same issues on both turntables.

 

[MMJ]

Switched to a generic RCA cable. No difference I think.

 

[MMJ]

Also measured these with @Balle Clorin wonderful apps. Anything stands out? Not sure how to interpret phase degree measurements. For the VTA analysis what kind of test signal is required? I have two test records on hand maybe one of them has something that is usable.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Arm low cartridge resonance looks normal
Crosstalk is even but not impressive , but this tepends very much on the record
Crosstalk is optimal when both phase and levels are equal, level is more important than phase
For VTA you need the CBS STR-112 record, 400:400hz 6db vertical modulation track

Which record did you use for crosstalk?

 

[MMJ]

How does inequality in phase affects playback quality? Never seen this type of measurement.

Ortofon Test Record. I used the Clearaudio L-R first, but on that one when playing the Left channel it had serious bleed to the Right. This Ortofon one was much cleaner.

 

[Balle Clorin]

This is called crosstalk or separation.The troublemaker when setting it,that is the azimuth angle of the cartridge, is that it vary a lot between test records. So setting it right on one makes it wrong on another.

Setting it visually may seen like the best compromise, but I even if the needle is straight vertically (90 degree) the internal part that generate the signal may be off , just mounting the Headshell with pressure clockwise or counterclockwise can make a big difference
see the web app in my signature

 

[MouseOnMars]

This is called crosstalk or separation.The troublemaker when setting it,that is the azimuth angle of the cartridge, is that it vary a lot between test records. So setting it right on one makes it wrong on another.

Setting it visually may seen like the best compromise, but I even if the needle is straight vertically (90 degree) the internal part that generate the signal may be off , just mounting the Headshell with pressure clockwise or counterclockwise can make a big difference
see the web app in my signature

Just wrap it up. Admit defeat. Someone falls to that problem? Dumb af

Stop. End turntables. They waste audio and money.

 

[Balle Clorin]

But vinyl can keep us busy, and it is fun to tweak. CD is perfect forever but where is the fun of tweaking with red og green cables with silly prices?Better to tweak with something that can be improved...

Cartridge change in crosstalk as cartridge is tilted. her 0.5degree tile is optimal electronically on thie particular test record. probably not so on others...

 

[Thomas_A]

The resonances ≈300-500 Hz is the Concorde body, it's the shape/structure of the body making this. Plus there are resonances higher up as well. Peaking >10 kHz can be tamed a bit with loading or using another OM type stylus.

The large deviation of one of them is either poor body or poor connection to the arm.