HELP: THX AAA 789 + GSX1000

[obc]

Lately i saw and read many good things about the thx aaa 789 dac, so i ordered one.
I´m fairly new to the audiophile topic and want to know if i should get a new DAC and if yes which one (~600$ budget). I will only listen with Headphone/Headsets and because i´m a competitive gamer i would appreciate it to be good for games and music (is there a difference?).

At the moment i use the Sennheiser GSX1000 (DAC+AMP) with headsets (sennheiser pc350,pc360, hyper x cloud) and headphones (takstar pro 82´s, fostex t20rp,beyer dt1990pro). I bought the thx aaa 789 to make the t20rp and dt1990pro sound like they should.

TLR: DAC recommendation under 600$ to use it with thx aaa 789.

The JDS EL DAC or SMSL SU-8 comes to my mind but maybe there is something cheaper?

 

[peterq]

how about modi3?

 

[wadec22]

Lately i saw and read many good things about the thx aaa 789 dac, so i ordered one.
I´m fairly new to the audiophile topic and want to know if i should get a new DAC and if yes which one (~600$ budget). I will only listen with Headphone/Headsets and because i´m a competitive gamer i would appreciate it to be good for games and music (is there a difference?).

At the moment i use the Sennheiser GSX1000 (DAC+AMP) with headsets (sennheiser pc350,pc360, hyper x cloud) and headphones (takstar pro 82´s, fostex t20rp,beyer dt1990pro). I bought the thx aaa 789 to make the t20rp and dt1990pro sound like they should.

TLR: DAC recommendation under 600$ to use it with thx aaa 789.

The JDS EL DAC or SMSL SU-8 comes to my mind but maybe there is something cheaper?

Most games are mastered at 16/44, 16/48, maybe 24/48. Most DACs today handle that with ease. It's really about what features you want; display, remote, EQ, etc.

The Topping D50, SMSL SU-8, EL DAC, all great candidates. In fact most DACs on the SINAD chart at 90+ are more than capable for your use.

 

[xadmin]

The GSX1000 is fine

 

[KR8NUX]

Buy something cheap like the Topping D10, D30, Grace SDAC, Khadas Tone board etc. The THX works quite well with unbalanced DACs. If you MUST go balanced then get the SU 8 rev2

 

[obc]

yeah, ordered the su-8 already. read so many good comments about this combination.

 

[Halcyon]

If you are a competitive gamer and need/can use the multi-channel binauralization of GSX1000, then you can NOT use 1) external DAC OR 2) External AMP (unless, for the latter, you drive the external amp from the headphone output of the GSX1000, which will result in decreased sound quality), without losing the multichannel->3D headphone sound.

Why?

GSX1000 does NOT give out the 7.1 -> multichannel binauralized sound output via it's digital output. It only gives plain old stereo signal from the digital output.

To my knowledge, only the Creative SoundBlasterX series (G5, G6, X7, etc) can give the 3D sound out via the digital output*.

* Unless there has been a firmware update to GSX1000/GSX1200 that enables this, that I'm not aware of.

 

[wadec22]

I wouldn't use any "3d" sound for competitive. For single player they are neat for atmosphere. For competitive, they mess with imaging.

Comp you want stereo with high resolution headphones

 

[bravomail]

get modi3 or Khadas tone for 100. Save money on better headphones! Senns 58x or AKG K7xx

 

[Halcyon]

I wouldn't use any "3d" sound for competitive. For single player they are neat for atmosphere. For competitive, they mess with imaging.

Comp you want stereo with high resolution headphones

I agree, but this depends on the game.

If the game does NOT have built-in 3D headphone virtualization, then you only get stereo, with ZERO 3D positional cues.

In this case, it is better to use 5.1 / 7.1 sound output from the game and use the soundcard to do the X.1 -> 3D virtualization conversion.

Yes, with games like Overwatch with Dolby Atmos Headphones built-in, it is better to use the game engines virtualization and bypass that of the sound card.

So, again, it depends on the game.

 

[wadec22]

I agree, but this depends on the game.

If the game does NOT have built-in 3D headphone virtualization, then you only get stereo, with ZERO 3D positional cues.

In this case, it is better to use 5.1 / 7.1 sound output from the game and use the soundcard to do the X.1 -> 3D virtualization conversion.

Yes, with games like Overwatch with Dolby Atmos Headphones built-in, it is better to use the game engines virtualization and bypass that of the sound card.

So, again, it depends on the game.

I disagree, but I can't speak to a lot of games I guess. I play PUBG, Tarkov & BFV. I know the guys at hardware canucks reviewed the Sennheiser GSX unit and also recommended not using their DSP effect in comp games (namely Counter Strike which they still play comp).

All of those 3d audio settings are DSP effects using algorithms to simulate something. I personally don't want anything messing with the native signal when I'm playing competitive but to each their own I guess if you find something working better for you.

 

[obc]

well it´s about counterstrike, but since i bought the thx789 and su-8 already it´s kind of to late.

 

[wadec22]

well it´s about counterstrike, but since i bought the thx789 and su-8 already it´s kind of to late.

very solid setup - overkill if anything (i'm currently using the RME ADI 2 so certainly no judgement here).

 

[Halcyon]

I disagree, but I can't speak to a lot of games I guess. I play PUBG, Tarkov & BFV. I know the guys at hardware canucks reviewed the Sennheiser GSX unit and also recommended not using their DSP effect in comp games (namely Counter Strike which they still play comp).

I think this is where one needs to trust one's own ears. Positional cues are real, but can only be calculated from true positional signals (game engine internally, or 5.1/7.1 sound streams).

I've played CS on competitive level (granted, more than a decade ago) and would not have resorted to the built-in sound EVER, in fact, 3D positional audio gave me an edge, that once learned, worked almost like a 3D sonar in positioning enemies in front, at sides and roughly also at back.

So, don't trust some random guy on the Internet (me or anybody else). Try it out for yourself.

 

[KR8NUX]

well it´s about counterstrike, but since i bought the thx789 and su-8 already it´s kind of to late.

CS Go's in game virtualization is spot on. You don't need to worry about anything.

 

[wadec22]

I think this is where one needs to trust one's own ears. Positional cues are real, but can only be calculated from true positional signals (game engine internally, or 5.1/7.1 sound streams).

I've played CS on competitive level (granted, more than a decade ago) and would not have resorted to the built-in sound EVER, in fact, 3D positional audio gave me an edge, that once learned, worked almost like a 3D sonar in positioning enemies in front, at sides and roughly also at back.

So, don't trust some random guy on the Internet (me or anybody else). Try it out for yourself.

totally fair. like I said, I don't do counter strike. The other three games are me experimenting on my own with everything from Dolby Headphone, Asus Sonar, Creative SBX and good old stereo. All trying different Windows speaker settings and in game speaker settings.

Each game is different and it blows me away how off the in-game stuff can be. BFV new 3D headphone algorithm is awful even though they proclaim it to be spot on. I mess with each game's audio before settling in. A lot of variables here, including one's own hearing.

 

[KR8NUX]

totally fair. like I said, I don't do counter strike. The other three games are me experimenting on my own with everything from Dolby Headphone, Asus Sonar, Creative SBX and good old stereo. All trying different Windows speaker settings and in game speaker settings.

Each game is different and it blows me away how off the in-game stuff can be. BFV new 3D headphone algorithm is awful even though they proclaim it to be spot on. I mess with each game's audio before settling in. A lot of variables here, including one's own hearing.

We've had an extensive discussion on reddit regarding the state of HRTF, which of the solutions work well and in what context, and whether they enhance or stand in conflict with in game virtualization. There are quite a few games with such spot on and accurate virtualization that using an HRTF solution like Creative SBX, waves NX present in the mobius etc actually just increases crosstalk and ruins the accuracy of positional audio. This is best left to actual experimentation with each game comparing the software to in game virtualization.

 

[Roen]

Hmm.... I suppose for PvP I should turn off Dolby. Never thought about that.

 

[obc]

We've had an extensive discussion on reddit regarding the state of HRTF, which of the solutions work well and in what context, and whether they enhance or stand in conflict with in game virtualization. There are quite a few games with such spot on and accurate virtualization that using an HRTF solution like Creative SBX, waves NX present in the mobius etc actually just increases crosstalk and ruins the accuracy of positional audio. This is best left to actual experimentation with each game comparing the software to in game virtualization.

can u link it here or pm me the reddit thread? i really wonder whats best in csgo.
there are so many combinations its crazy:
windows stereo/7.1
gsx 2.0/7.1
ingame counterstrike hrtf on/off
ingame counterstrike stereo,hp or 5.1

in my case i prefer to use the stereospeaker setting in cs, because then MY gunshots are not so immense loud compared to the rest

 

[KR8NUX]

can u link it here or pm me the reddit thread? i really wonder whats best in csgo.
there are so many combinations its crazy:
windows stereo/7.1
gsx 2.0/7.1
ingame counterstrike hrtf on/off
ingame counterstrike stereo,hp or 5.1

in my case i prefer to use the stereospeaker setting in cs, because then MY gunshots are not so immense loud compared to the rest

We didn't go a game case by case basis, just discussed the HRTF is general. You need to test the settings out yourself by playing against bots, its not that difficult, comes down to what you want the most, accurate positional audio or a more '3D like' experience.

Edit - heres the discussion -
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/aa0mtw also see illram's response on that, he has the most experience with HRTF stuff.