Help optimizing system

[ErFero]

Hi guys,
I'm really excited to have discovered this site, a beacon in the night in the field of "audio mysticism" in which I stumbled when I decided to go into this fantastic world.
However, I have always considered the audiophile world too far-fetched, keeping me distant. But recently I found an incredible offer for a complete system that I coudln't resist and I bought it. The system is as follows:
-Kingrex t20 AMP + PSU
-Topping dx3 Pro + Topping p50 PSU
-Anticables 2.2 for all connections
-Audioquest USB jitterbug
-JB3F johnblue speakers
Everything was practically new, with boxes and manuals, at the paltry price of 600 €. I could not resist and I entered this world.
I purchased a short time after a Kingrex pre amp v3, further increasing the sound quality. But now a doubt arises about the source. Before I used an old Windows laptop with JRIVER, but I decided to buy a Raspberry PI 4 with Volumio, and I must say that in terms of interface and usability it is perfect. But I would like to make this little object the best, and I was thinking about how to improve it. I saw that by connecting the USB-C cable to the USB output of the Topping P50 the sound improves (compared to the Amazon € 5 power supply), but I plan to replace the Topping to buy a Sabaj d5 to also have a decent headphone output , which the Topping dx3 pro does not have (at least to drive Sennheiser HD650).
Now, therefore, passing to the questions:
- Would I have an increase by adding an Allo Signature device or similar using a COAX cable to the DAC, or are they wasted using a good DAC and therefore the USB output of the Raspberry PI 4 is sufficient? There are those who say that there is no difference because the USB is ever better, who says the opposite, and costing € 250 I would not do "attempts" ...
-What DAC could I buy that has two outputs, so as to send the signal both to the Kingrex, and to another headphone amp? Would the Sabaj D5 do the trick by connecting the first amp via RCA and the other with a balanced output? I wouldn't change the Topping dx3 pro, but all the kingrex system doesn't have an headphone output, and the topping dx3 pro has only one RCA output...
-What USB power supply I could buy to feed the raspberry? I have read that if an Allo device is added, it must be powered by two separate sources, so could I not use a single linear power supply?
I thank you in advance for your answers or for any clarifications to my mistakes.

 

[Killingbeans]

Hi guys,
I'm really excited to have discovered this site, a beacon in the night in the field of "audio mysticism" in which I stumbled when I decided to go into this fantastic world.

Welcome!

I saw that by connecting the USB-C cable to the USB output of the Topping P50 the sound improves (compared to the Amazon € 5 power supply)

It doesn't. Personally I'd get rid of both the P50 and the Jitterbug. A good DAC needs neither of those two, and the Raspberry Pi definitely doesn't.

- Would I have an increase by adding an Allo Signature device or similar using a COAX cable to the DAC

An increase of the amount of money, you spend? Yes!

An increase of fidelity? Nope...

or are they wasted using a good DAC and therefore the USB output of the Raspberry PI 4 is sufficient?

Yes, keep the Raspberry Pi as it is and be happy. It's more than sufficient

There are those who say that there is no difference because the USB is ever better, who says the opposite, and costing € 250 I would not do "attempts" ...

There is no difference. The Allo Signature is an overkill product with no audible benefits IMO.

EDIT: No disrespect to Allo. The Signature measures outstandingly well, but I doubt it makes an audible difference compared to the USB input on a good DAC. I'll eat my words if measurements show that it actually does.

I wouldn't change the Topping dx3 pro, but all the kingrex system doesn't have an headphone output, and the topping dx3 pro has only one RCA output...

If I were in your shoes I'd keep the DX3 PRO and use the built in amp, but only with low impedance headphones. Should be highly satisfying.

-What USB power supply I could buy to feed the raspberry?

Non. The Pi is an all-in-one PC, not an analogue piece of kit with bad power regulation. The choice of PSU makes zero difference.

 

[ErFero]

Welcome!



It doesn't. Personally I'd get rid of both the P50 and the Jitterbug. A good DAC needs neither of those two, and the Raspberry Pi definitely doesn't.



An increase of the amount of money, you spend? Yes!

An increase of fidelity? Nope...



Yes, keep the Raspberry Pi as it is and be happy. It's more than sufficient



There is no difference. The Allo Signature is an overkill product with no audible benefits IMO.

EDIT: No disrespect to Allo. The Signature measures outstandingly well, but I doubt it makes an audible difference compared to the USB input on a good DAC. I'll eat my words if measurements show that it actually does.



If I were in your shoes I'd keep the DX3 PRO and use the built in amp, but only with low impedance headphones. Should be highly satisfying.



Non. The Pi is an all-in-one PC, not an analogue piece of kit with bad power regulation. The choice of PSU makes zero difference.

thank you very much for the answer. I appeased my hunger for updates, preferring instead to listen to some good music. Also because if I reached the maximum immediately, I don't even think I'd enjoy every little upgrade.
Another question: how should I set the system volume? For now I have left the amplifier at maximum and I'm adjusting the volume from the preamplifier. The fact is that already turning the knob very little, the volume is definitely high. Is this normal as the speakers are so small and sensitive?
Obviously the DAC is set to 0 DB and the source has no control over the audio, so there are no upstream gains.

 

[Killingbeans]

Are you using the extra inputs on the preamp? If not, I'd simply remove it and use the volume control on the DAC.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about SNR getting low, as long as it's not immediately audible.

 

[ErFero]

Are you using the extra inputs on the preamp? If not, I'd simply remove it and use the volume control on the DAC.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about SNR getting low, as long as it's not immediately audible.

I'm not currently using the two inputs, but the difference between the t20 with or without the preamp is relevant.

I wanted to know if keeping the preamp so low could harm the final quality of the sound, because I read that the final amplifier should be kept to the maximum, so I thought it was the same thing with the preamp.

 

[Wes]

concentrate on room treatments and speaker positioning is my advice

 

[Killingbeans]

but the difference between the t20 with or without the preamp is relevant.

Maybe... maybe not. The DX3 Pro is built around two AK4493. Those are 32-bit DAC chips with a large headroom for digital attenuation without loosing resolution. I would be surprised if you get audibly more noise and/or distortion by using the DAC as volume control. The amp and the speakers are by far the biggest bottlenecks in you setup IMO.

 

[M00ndancer]

I would be surprised if you get audibly more noise and/or distortion by using the DAC as volume control. The amp and the speakers are by far the biggest bottlenecks in you setup IMO.

Totally agree, using the DAC volume control seems prudent. The DX3 Pro is the least of your "problems".
@Killingbeans is on point above, ditch the surplus gear (sell them?) and use the money to improve the listening room.

 

[ErFero]

Maybe... maybe not. The DX3 Pro is built around two AK4493. Those are 32-bit DAC chips with a large headroom for digital attenuation without loosing resolution. I would be surprised if you get audibly more noise and/or distortion by using the DAC as volume control. The amp and the speakers are by far the biggest bottlenecks in you setup IMO.

I have no esoteric expectations from the hi-fi system, but at what cost (considering the used market) could I have a substantial upgrade? I have neither the desire nor the economic availability to spend huge sums.

Totally agree, using the DAC volume control seems prudent. The DX3 Pro is the least of your "problems".
@Killingbeans is on point above, ditch the surplus gear (sell them?) and use the money to improve the listening room.

I have already ordered various bass traps and sound-absorbing panels to use to improve the acoustics in the room, following several guides found on the net.

 

[Killingbeans]

I have no esoteric expectations from the hi-fi system, but at what cost (considering the used market) could I have a substantial upgrade? I have neither the desire nor the economic availability to spend huge sums.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you like the sound of the amp and the speakers, then it's all good. Just don't waste money changing things downstream

The speakers use a single tiny fullrange driver and only have a moderate sensitivity around 88dB, while the amp has a massive amount of distortion and noise in most of its range (and has very little headroom). It's definitely a setup designed to color the sound in a certain way, but whether or not that's a bad thing is completely up to you and your personal taste.

If you want to experiment with other gear, I'd suggest finding dealers who lets you try it out at home before buying.

 

[ErFero]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you like the sound of the amp and the speakers, then it's all good. Just don't waste money changing things downstream

The speakers use a single tiny fullrange driver and only have a moderate sensitivity around 88dB, while the amp has a massive amount of distortion and noise in most of its range (and has very little headroom). It's definitely a setup designed to color the sound in a certain way, but whether or not that's a bad thing is completely up to you and your personal taste.

If you want to experiment with other gear, I'd suggest finding dealers who lets you try it out at home before buying.

at least I realized I didn't have to waste money unnecessarily with Allo and similar things.
considering that these speakers are still sold at around € 500 here in Italy, I would do well to sell them and buy something else? I don't mind the idea of staying on the T amp, also because I'll have to hear the music in a room that's about 4m * 5m, and I don't think I need 100w monsters

 

[Killingbeans]

considering that these speakers are still sold at around € 500 here in Italy, I would do well to sell them and buy something else?

It's not for me to say. The perfect speaker doesn't exist (some approximate more realistically than most, but cost a lot more than the JB3F ). I wouldn't sell them unless you don't like the way they sound, or you find some others that fit your taste better.

 

[ErFero]

It's not for me to say. The perfect speaker doesn't exist (some approximate more realistically than most, but cost a lot more than the JB3F ). I wouldn't sell them unless you don't like the way they sound, or you find some others that fit your taste better.

I probably chose the wrong hobby. I come from photography where the distinction between an excellent lens and a bad one is easily seen. In the audio field, on the other hand, it seems to me that every little upgrade needs a much deeper study. On the one hand it is stimulating, on the other it puts a little fear.
Probably then I will stay with this system,, and I will finish fixing the acoustics of the room. In the meantime, I'll start by taking a few laps in the HiFi stores here in Rome (which unfortunately don't abound), to try to understand what I can like and what not.
My doubts were born from the fact that the sound seemed to me to be not very dynamic, and with classical music I didn't have that complexity of sound, but everything seemed a bit chaotic (file dsd 128 256). Given the expense, I didn't expect anything miraculous, but not so little. In the other hand, 2 instruments music and vocals are really impressive, and the clarity is more than enough.

 

[Killingbeans]

On the one hand it is stimulating, on the other it puts a little fear.

Sound like any new hobby to me

Once you get a few pointers in palce to help you navigate through the BS and understand the basic technicalities, then it's just pure fun.

No one can get hurt, except you wallet

In the other hand, 2 instruments music and vocals are really impressive, and the clarity is more than enough.

I'm not not surprised. It's the kind of music that (generally speaking) fits a full range driver really well. It also avoids touching most of the extremities in music that will expose glaring faults/shortcomings in the speaker design. There's a reason why manufacturers love to to use it as demonstration material at audio shows. At least that's my understanding so far. I don't listen to that kind of music much myself, to be honest.

 

[LTig]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you like the sound of the amp and the speakers, then it's all good. Just don't waste money changing things downstream

The speakers use a single tiny fullrange driver and only have a moderate sensitivity around 88dB, while the amp has a massive amount of distortion and noise in most of its range (and has very little headroom). It's definitely a setup designed to color the sound in a certain way, but whether or not that's a bad thing is completely up to you and your personal taste.

If you are not satisfied with the performance of these speakers my suggestion is to sell them together with the amp and get some decent active speakers. JBL 305 or 308 seem to be the entry level with a very good performance/price ratio. We have the predecessor here (JBL LSR 2325), they are not suited for desktop use (too much PS noise) but are fine for normal home stereo systems. With more money on hand you can either have a look what Genelec and Neumann has to offer, or think about a sub for the JBLs (if this is an option the 305s may be the better choice).