Help! Neumann KH120 or Kali IN-8 2nd Wave?

[joebobaggins]

I mix pop music and would like some very revealing near-field monitors. I know this is an unfair comparison in many ways given the price difference between the Neumann KH120 and the Kali IN-8. However I'm at a point now where I would like a very competently designed speaker with a transparent frequency spectrum, particularly in the mids. For a large two-way speaker that offers a lot of sub, this seems difficult to achieve, with the woofer's workload being more thinly spread.

My understanding is that the KH120's, given smaller size, are able to very accurately deliver the frequencies they offer, as a result of not having to send too much to the woofer in terms of sub-frequencies. I might be willing to forgo this lack of sub for such accurate mid-high represenation, however these speakers are pushing my budget to its limit, even though I wouldn't be able to obtain a entirely full picture (only in sub frequencies).

Then I discovered the IN-8s, and it seems to me that these are incredibly capable speakers, with an all-encompassing frequency response for the price, even in the mids, on account of the three-way system.

Basically, would anyone be able to offer advice, especially someone who has experience with either or both? Is the accuracy of the KH120s worth the lack of sub? Or should I go for the cheaper, all encompassing frequency response? Have I surmised the situation correctly? You peeps seem to know your shiz so I would greatly appreicate some guidance.

 

[Matias]

Welcome to ASR.

The Kali IN-8 2nd Wave is brand new and there will be reviews and spinoramas soon. If you can wait, better to have the confirmation before buying. But if you cannot wait, maybe you can order somewhere with 30 day trial, and return if you don't like it?

Or better yet, buy them and drop ship to either Amir or Erin, and let them measure your speaker for free. How cool is that??

 

[joebobaggins]

Hey man, thanks for the response.

You raise some solid points. My hope is that the IN-8's 2nd wave are more or less the same as the 1st wave sound-wise, with some minor improvements.

That is cool that they can test them! I just don't have the guts to buy and send something to an address in the states when I live in the UK. Feels like a bit of a risk. Maybe it'll come to that though, I'll think about it.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Hey man, thanks for the response.

You raise some solid points. My hope is that the IN-8's 2nd wave are more or less the same as the 1st wave sound-wise, with some minor improvements.

That is cool that they can test them! I just don't have the guts to buy and send something to an address in the states when I live in the UK. Feels like a bit of a risk. Maybe it'll come to that though, I'll think about it.

Get the KH120
Add a sub later
I had some (not so low end) Focal Alpha 80 and the KH120(which are hi end for me)
The KH120 are on a different planet even though they're tiny in comparison.
You can also consider Genelec 8030C

 

[abdo123]

it all depends on how loud you listen and how far you will be.

the KH120 will probably more accurate, but the Kali will play louder. both need a sub imo.

 

[joebobaggins]

Get the KH120
Add a sub later
I had some (not so low end) Focal Alpha 80 and the KH120(which are hi end for me)
The KH120 are on a different planet even though they're tiny in comparison.
You can also consider Genelec 8030C

Hey nice! I'm coming from Alpha 65s, which, despite sounding great, just lack the mid range clarity I'm after. Encouraging to hear your comparison.

Still have a soft spot and undying curiosity about the IN-8s, but given the wait time for UK stocks (Andertons and Scan both say it'll be some time), I might have to go with the Neumann's.

Dat £400 difference though

 

[joebobaggins]

it all depends on how loud you listen and how far you will be.

the KH120 will probably more accurate, but the Kali will play louder. both need a sub imo.

I'll be at 1m, so I guess the Neumann's are more suitable in that regard. Thanks for sharing your response.

 

[abdo123]

I'll be at 1m, so I guess the Neumann's are more suitable in that regard. Thanks for sharing your response.

Then the KH120 are the obvious choice as they can play up to 100 dBSPL at 1 meter while keeping THD below 1% above 100 Hz.

 

[test1223]

Hello,

The Kali IN-8 2nd Wave would overall outperform the KH 120. The bass will be deeper and louder you have a decent coaxial design, which is beneficial especially in a near field desk environment. The review of the smaller IN-5 https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kali_in-5/ shows exzellent results for the price and a coaxial design. The KH 120 will be a bit smother on axis and at some horizontal angles but it also hasn't such a nice smooth DI. I would pick the genelec 8030c if you like to have a more classical speaker (better low diffraction enclosure, iso pods, better DI, less beam in the ultra high tones). With a subwoofer the Genelec would be better than the Kali IN-8 2nd Wave I would guess but there are pros and cons for both.

Best
Thomas

 

[joebobaggins]

Hello,

The Kali IN-8 2nd Wave would overall outperform the KH 120. The bass will be deeper and louder you have a decent coaxial design, which is beneficial especially in a near field desk environment. The review of the smaller IN-5 https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kali_in-5/ shows exzellent results for the price and a coaxial design. The KH 120 will be a bit smother on axis and at some horizontal angles but it also hasn't such a nice smooth DI. I would pick the genelec 8030c if you like to have a more classical speaker (better low diffraction enclosure, iso pods, better DI, less beam in the ultra high tones). With a subwoofer the Genelec would be better than the Kali IN-8 2nd Wave I would guess but there are pros and cons for both.

Best
Thomas

Thanks for your input. Interesting to get such different opinions! I haven't considered genelecs properly, so I appreciate the recommendation. I know this forum seems to like them a lot, which seems like a good sign.

To be honest I think I am leaning toward the Kali, just for sheer value for money and less urgent need for a £1k sub down the line. I could even buy some great monitoring headphones with the spare cash, just to double check the low end of my mixes.

Decisions!

 

[Pearljam5000]

Thanks for your input. Interesting to get such different opinions! I haven't considered genelecs properly, so I appreciate the recommendation. I know this forum seems to like them a lot, which seems like a good sign.

To be honest I think I am leaning toward the Kali, just for sheer value for money and less urgent need for a £1k sub down the line. I could even buy some great monitoring headphones with the spare cash, just to double check the low end of my mixes.

Decisions!

I liked the 8030C even more than the KH120
Even without hearing the Kalis I'm sure the 8030C crushes them, even though they'll have less bass obviously.
I've heard many monitors, unfortunately the price always reflects the SQ.
You could always add a cheaper sub.
You can't also compare CMS and Alpha to Solo6
I also thought there's no way there will be a big difference, but it's night and day between the cheap and expensive models.

 

[sharock]

Even without hearing the Kalis I'm sure the 8030C crushes them...
...it's night and day between the cheap and expensive models.

This is the kind of objectivity I browse ASR for!

 

[test1223]

To be honest I think I am leaning toward the Kali, just for sheer value for money and less urgent need for a £1k sub down the line.

Yes very good value with the Kali.

I could even buy some great monitoring headphones with the spare cash, just to double check the low end of my mixes.

There is a major difference between headphone bass and speaker bass. The sensation of vibration adds a lot fun to the bass, but if your headphone has a god fit you may mix the bass with headphones. But I guess it is much harder compared with speakers.

 

[Pearljam5000]

This is the kind of objectivity I browse ASR for!

Lol i think have enough experience to say that
I've never heard a cheap monitor that sounded better than a more expensive one.

 

[ernestcarl]

Is the accuracy of the KH120s worth the lack of sub?

Without a sub, I'd lean towards the larger IN-8 v2, which is the better value -- but just to be sure, it would be best to audition the speakers in your own room and listening position. Sure, this or that monitor might measure objectively better than the cheaper Kali in certain aspects in paper; but, if at all possible (?), I'd much rather hear the monitors in a real side-by-side comparison before making any decision.

 

[joebobaggins]

Without a sub, I'd lean towards the larger IN-8 v2, which is the better value -- but just to be sure, it would be best to audition the speakers in your own room and listening position. Sure, this or that monitor might measure objectively better than the cheaper Kali in certain aspects in paper; but, if at all possible (?), I'd much rather hear the monitors in a real side-by-side comparison before making any decision.

This is the key isn't it really. I've decided I'm going to buy and test the KH120, 8030C and the IN-8 in my room to make an informed decision.

Will let you know what happens!

 

[Matias]

This is the key isn't it really. I've decided I'm going to buy and test the KH120, 8030C and the IN-8 in my room to make an informed decision.

Will let you know what happens!

Everyone loves a shootout.

 

[joebobaggins]

Yo guys, better late than never. Just tried the Kali In-8 v2, Genelec 8030C and the Neumann KH120 in a shop showroom, side by side.

My thoughts for each are:

Kali: Generally the least impressive of the three, though still awesome monitors I would say. If I was comparing them to less high-end monitors maybe they'd have shined brighter.

The main appeal is the frequency bandwidth they cover. They were hitting low notes in songs that the other two couldn't even touch (examples used: Jamie XX - Gosh, and Aphex Twin IZ-US).

Even though there's three drivers, they still feel like they're lacking in the low mids, but had everything else covered pretty well. The highs at around 5k stood out the most to me. Good all rounder in general but just not as revealing as I would like.

Genelec: Instinctually my favourite. Incredibly accurate and forward mids, which is what I'm after. They had a great 'feel' when I AB'd them with the others. More than enough bass where it matters for me. The highs were slightly more veiled than the Neumanns I would say. But overall, I loved them.

Neumann: Hard to fault these in any regard. They were more open in the top end, compared to the Genelecs. I would say that due to the extra bandwidth given to the highs, this might detract from the mids a bit, however, at this point it just comes down to taste.

Overall, the Kalis can't compete with what the Neumanns and Genelecs do so well, but they do work well as an all-in-one package. The other two are both excellent monitors, it just comes down to your taste; whether you prefer an open, lighter sound (Neumann) or a more forward, mid heavy sound (Genelec).

At the this point I'm leaning towards Genelec but the Neumanns are a very close second.

Hope this was of use to somebody.

 

[dfuller]

Genelec: Instinctually my favourite. Incredibly accurate and forward mids, which is what I'm after. They had a great 'feel' when I AB'd them with the others. More than enough bass where it matters for me. The highs were slightly more veiled than the Neumanns I would say. But overall, I loved them.

Neumann: Hard to fault these in any regard. They were more open in the top end, compared to the Genelecs. I would say that due to the extra bandwidth given to the highs, this might detract from the mids a bit, however, at this point it just comes down to taste.

This has been my experience as well! The Genelecs are by comparison somewhat veiled on the top end - their sound power slopes down somewhat more than the Neumanns do. Why this is, I couldn't tell you - but I personally find it much easier to mix on Neumanns than Genelecs.

 

[boyde]

Yo guys, better late than never. Just tried the Kali In-8 v2, Genelec 8030C and the Neumann KH120 in a shop showroom, side by side.

My thoughts for each are:

Kali: Generally the least impressive of the three, though still awesome monitors I would say. If I was comparing them to less high-end monitors maybe they'd have shined brighter.

The main appeal is the frequency bandwidth they cover. They were hitting low notes in songs that the other two couldn't even touch (examples used: Jamie XX - Gosh, and Aphex Twin IZ-US).

Even though there's three drivers, they still feel like they're lacking in the low mids, but had everything else covered pretty well. The highs at around 5k stood out the most to me. Good all rounder in general but just not as revealing as I would like.

Genelec: Instinctually my favourite. Incredibly accurate and forward mids, which is what I'm after. They had a great 'feel' when I AB'd them with the others. More than enough bass where it matters for me. The highs were slightly more veiled than the Neumanns I would say. But overall, I loved them.

Neumann: Hard to fault these in any regard. They were more open in the top end, compared to the Genelecs. I would say that due to the extra bandwidth given to the highs, this might detract from the mids a bit, however, at this point it just comes down to taste.

Overall, the Kalis can't compete with what the Neumanns and Genelecs do so well, but they do work well as an all-in-one package. The other two are both excellent monitors, it just comes down to your taste; whether you prefer an open, lighter sound (Neumann) or a more forward, mid heavy sound (Genelec).

At the this point I'm leaning towards Genelec but the Neumanns are a very close second.

Hope this was of use to somebody.

Thanks for this, as I second your thoughts exactly on Genelec vs Neumann, I think you have saved me from thinking about downgrading to the Kali Speakers.

I saw a post this morning about Avid using Kali in there new Atmos Room and it got me wondering. Might buy some Kali if I upgrade to surround mixing myself though as they clearly punch above their weight.

I had Gene's for around two years and now use Neumann. My two cents was that the Gene's sound never worked with me instinctively, like it does with some and was always chasing a more classic speaker sound. I see Genelecs as perfect for those who have always had very round sounding speakers through their life, whereas the Neumann's are like a vintage speaker (or an upgraded NS-10) for the modern era. The vocals on them are very slightly pushed back in the mix but that is the only thing I have had to learn and I own some Aurotones/grot boxes to double check things before sending out. But, generally I just mix on this speaker and never have to adjust too much for translation.

I don't have a sub with my KH120s.