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Help needed: what amplifier for bookshelf speakers

Emeryt

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Hi,
I'm quite new in Hi-Fi world, it's just 6 months of studying audio forums at nights. But I'm very glad I've finaly bought Audiovector QR1 speakers and I really like it.
Now I'm looking for amplifier for them. Actually I'm looking for Amp, DAC and streamer - for about 600euro max.
So far I have:
- SMSL Q5 Pro, usually I'm listening at volume settings around 10 to 20, rather not louder (max is 60in this amp). Overall I like Q5 Pro size and sound (especially at E5 setting) but I'd like to have better sound quality, better clarity, bigger sound stage - I think my QR1 deserves better amp.
- As streamer I'm using Chromecast Audio (via Toslink) or my LG V30 via mini jack cable. And I must admit SQ and stage from LG is really good - much better than from CCA.
If it matters: music mainly accoustic, jazz etc. room around 35 square meters.

I plan to buy Raspberry Pi 3B+, Ifi Power charger and potentially Khadas Tone Board as DAC. Or instead of HAT DAC, external DAC e.g. Topping D50s (or Schitt Modi3?).
The biggest issue I have is what Amp should I buy? I'd like to have great SQ, volume control, left/right balance control(optional) and remote controller. I thought about e.g. 'IOM NCore 250 stereo rca' but then there is no volume control etc. so I would need to buy some preamp which would double the price, which makes thing complicated, and I haven't found any interesting one.
I'm thinking about SMSL A6 or A8 (no left/right balance), however I'm not so convienced to them. I think A8 have too much power and too high price for my needs, and I'm not sure if A6, especially it's DAC is good enough). Do they have any alternatives?
 

M00ndancer

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As streamer I'm using Chromecast Audio (via Toslink) or my LG V30 via mini jack cable. And I must admit SQ and stage from LG is really good - much better than from CCA.
First: Welcome to ASR!

But I'm afraid that you are making assumptions that are false. You're connecting your CCA via Toslink (digitally, no audio transmitted) and connecting your LG V30 with an analogue cable. That means that you're not listening to the CCA, it's just a transport. A really good and cheap one. The sound you "hear" from the CCA is the DAC in the SMSL, the CCA has nothing to do with it. It's only transporting the Zeros and Ones.
When you're using your excellent phone you're using the DAC in your phone, producing an analogue sound that's amplified in the SMSL.
You should also be aware that unless you listen to your gear blindly and volume matched, it's really, really hard to be objective.
There is an absolute possibility that the DAC in the SMSL is inferior to the DAC in your phone, but it's hard to tell unless you measure it. The CCA is bit-perfect. (And not to bad as an analogue source.) Try to connect the CCA with the same mini jack cable.

I'd like to have better sound quality, better clarity, bigger sound stage
I haven't listen to the Q5 so this advice is what you should do if the amp is good enough: Get a measurement mic and a minidsp 2x4. Measure your listening room and try to do some acoustic treatment.
If you still feel that the sound is not good enough, get another pair of speakers. That will make the biggest difference.

If you need an amp go for the Behringer A800 and a SMSL M500 for example. Lots of power, balanced connection between the DAC and AMP.
For a selection of DACs use this chart: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/
 
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Emeryt

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Regarding CCA and cables I get your point.
Regarding Q5 I don't get it. As Q5 in review get low score, I thought I should look for amp with much better score. Instead you proposed accoustic treatment (which anyway makes sense). So do you suggest that amps with better score will not give me audible improvement?
Regarding DSP. I've been testing for a while Yamaha RN803d with YPAO function. Improvement was so slight for me, that not worth 6 times higher price. miniDSP would give me better improvement?
Anyway as I'm still learning, I cannot believe my judgments as everyday I learn observing new differences.
 

M00ndancer

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. Instead you proposed accoustic treatment (which anyway makes sense).
I didn't, I said and I quote myself:
if the amp is good enough
My advice was based on the simple fact that I didn't know enough about the Q5. Probably just a language thing.

If you compare the Behringer A800 and a SMSL M500 combo with the Q5, there is a significant measurable difference. How much is audible? Depends... I suggest you read this article: http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm
That said, the Q5 is in the bottom of the pile, so you should notice a difference. I hope some of the more knowledgeable people here can chime in with how big the difference will be.

Did you compare the Yamaha RN803d vs the SMSL Q5? In that case there will be no or very small difference with the combo above. That brings me to the final thought. Perhaps you dont really like the sound from your speakers? Have you tried to EQ them? but with a measurements it's hard to do it right. I'm not sure how good the YPAO system is. An acoustic treatment of your room will probably make bigger difference. To make the most of the treatment the miniDSP 2x4 with the mic will make it possible to make a bad room better with the correct treament. Also adjust the EQ curves closer to what you like.

Also remember that the impact on sound quality impact goes DAC-AMP-Room treament-Speakers. Speakers have the most impact on the sound and the DAC the least.
 
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Emeryt

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Regarding speakers - I don't think issue is here. I've heard them in audio shop (with great accustics) and they sound brilliant. In my room I've tried 2 other sets of speakers and I didn't hear difference vs my old Sony mini tower. In QR1 I hear the difference (despite bad accoustic) and I like them.

Regarding AMP - As I still can return Q5 Pro and choose something else - so I'm still thinking what else could I choose.
Yamaha had slightly broader stage - I ignored that slight change, but then I've learned that actually those small changes make a difference. So I'd like to have such change again, but in small form, not like old big regular amps.

Regarding DAC - difference I hear between CCA and LG V30 (more crisp and better stage) is probably due to the fact that CCA plays Tidal HiFi and LG V30 plays Tidal Master - so I'm not comparing DAC to DAC, but types of Tidal streaming. Yamaha was compared with LG - so here I think was comparison of Master to Master.

Regarding accoustics. For sure there is a problem in my room. I hear reverberation in daily life, and without serious changes in ceiling or walls I will not do much about that, simple accustic panels won't be enough - based on accoustics expert. But I don't plan so far renovation.

So my goal is: Based on the improvement I'm able to hear between LGV30 (master) vs CCA(hifi), I'd like to get such improvement by updating equipment - so I could hear better sound even with Tidal hifi (or Spotify). Is that even possible?

Action plan:
  • let's assume speakers are fine.
  • CCA doesn't allow remote streaming in highest quality, so I should take Raspberry PI, and some DAC (lowest priority for now).
  • AMP - as actually I shouldn't use build in DAC in Q5 Pro, I could get other analog amp.
  • miniDSP - first thing to start.
Regarding Behringer A800. Does it make sense to use 400W amp in my case, as I'm usually listen music rather quietly?
 

M00ndancer

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Regarding DAC - difference I hear between CCA and LG V30 (more crisp and better stage) is probably due to the fact that CCA plays Tidal HiFi and LG V30 plays Tidal Master - so I'm not comparing DAC to DAC, but types of Tidal streaming.
It might even be worse, you might be comparing differences in mastering of each service. Regarding the difference as you perceive it, have you done it blindly and with volume matching? Have you redone the test with the CCA using the analogue cable? Your brain is your greatest weakness when it comes to comparing. Unless you've done the comparison correctly, you can't be sure. It's hard to do a proper test, you someone to help out, a multimeter to measure the voltage from the speaker terminals, some thing to make a test tone for the volume matching.

The A800 have gain/volume controls on the front, so it's just a matter of setting the max volume allowed.

Regarding accoustics. For sure there is a problem in my room. I hear reverberation in daily life, and without serious changes in ceiling or walls I will not do much about that, simple accustic panels won't be enough - based on accoustics expert. But I don't plan so far renovation
That's unfortunate. You might get a better sound with the minidsp and measurements. But if it's that bad, no EQ in the world will help you unless you can treat the room.
 

Darvis

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Sorry to dig up a (relatively) old thread, I've just searched the forum for "audiovector" and you're the only one speaking of them (at least the QR series). How do you like them after those months? And what did you compare them to? Thanks :)
 
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Emeryt

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Sorry for late replay, but it's due to vacation time. I'm very glad from those speaker. I'm really happy I bought them. They are small, they don't take me space on the floor, but they have powerfull sound. For my 35m2 room they are enough. They have great deep bass, and nice high tones. I very like high tones, and I hear them very well (but there is nothing too much, no sibiliants etc.. For me they are perfect. Maybe lucking mid tones, but it's not an issue for me.
But I'm beginner, and I don't know if my opinion is worthy. I've been comparing them with few speakers over half a year period when I was learning what is it all about in the same time. So I'm unable to compare them. At home I've tried before Dali Ikon 6, and Davis Mia 60. I've sent them back - no wow effect. In shops I've listened to Indiana Line 56, B&W 603, few others, some worse, some better. Anyway, QR1 made good impression on me when I heard them. Initially I've ignored them due to the price. But nothing else sounded so nice, so I got back to them.
 

panther

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Wish I had discovered the QR1 before I went another route. These look fantastic!
 
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