Help needed to select AVR for basement home theater!!

[bullet0770]

What's the rest of the project looking like in terms of speakers and sub? And size of the space?

Speakers:
KEF Q900 (Bi-Amped), Q600C & Q300's, eventually I would build DIY speakers or buy HT specific speakers.
Sub 2 x DIY mini marty
Open space in the basement (11x20 ft).

I would buy separate amp for front if needed in future and use AVR to power rest of the system.

Thanks,
Nav

 

[raistlin65]

Speakers:
KEF Q900 (Bi-Amped), Q600C & Q300's, eventually I would build DIY speakers or buy HT specific speakers.
Sub 2 x DIY mini marty
Open space in the basement (11x20 ft).

I would buy separate amp for front if needed in future and use AVR to power rest of the system.

Thanks,
Nav

Wow! That's going to be great! Lots of good, deep bass

I'm using a Denon X4200H with Ascend Acoustics Sierra speakers and a PSA sub (with another recently acquired PSA sub waiting to be hooked up and configured). Audyssey XT32 has worked great for me. No complaints. I am running a Parasound 2125v2 for my front left and right. I bought it to take some load off the receiver and for 2 channel music use. The Sierra 2EX I have as left and right are much less efficient than the Sierra Horizon Center with Raal, so seemed enough to just add additional power for them.

I will probably upgrade to another Denon with XT32 sometime in the next year to get the Audyssey App support so I can add a house curve for some warmth onto Audyssey: https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/upgrades/audysseymulteqeditorapp

 

[bullet0770]

Wow! That's going to be great! Lots of good, deep bass

I'm using a Denon X4200H with Ascend Acoustics Sierra speakers and a PSA sub (with another recently acquired PSA sub waiting to be hooked up and configured). Audyssey XT32 has worked great for me. No complaints. I am running a Parasound 2125v2 for my front left and right. I bought it to take some load off the receiver and for 2 channel music use. The Sierra 2EX I have as left and right are much less efficient than the Sierra Horizon Center with Raal, so seemed enough to just add additional power for them.

I will probably upgrade to another Denon with XT32 sometime in the next year to get the Audyssey App support so I can add a house curve for some warmth onto Audyssey: https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/upgrades/audysseymulteqeditorapp

Thanks for your reply. I would probably add 2 more rear field marty cubes . I heard a lot of good things about DIRAC and wanted to try out. Else, I would just buy one more Denon 4500H, I wish I could afford JBL synthesis.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

I would avoid Arcam personally. I’ve had two (AVP600 and AVR350) and definitely bought them for the snoot factor. They were, albeit, from the disastrous Arcam experiment with Chinese manufacturing. Both suffered from terminal hums that could not be cured. They sounded good but for the hum I couldn’t live with. I bought them used so had no ability to return them. An Israeli fellow sells a kit of about 120 parts to replace to apparently cure the hum but I’m not up to that. He says caps and diodes are lousy and regulators don’t handle the current and overheat. The accountants almost ruined Arcam with this experiment in cheap manufacturing and lousy capacitors and voltage regulators. And the PCBs are so crummy that you have to used a temperature controlled soldering station or the traces lift off the board. Ask me how I know.
And poor manufacturing isn’t all. The design of these units was very strange and not standard practice. There was a power supply board but in addition there were I think another half dozen or so separate power supplies distributed on various boards. Each with diode bridges and capacitors and regulators. Voltages were off spec. and not well regulated. This meant AC running all through many of the amp’s seven PCBs. What a potential for noise that is! Some boards had through hole, some had surface mount. Separate design teams likely throwing their contributions into a committee designed, accountant driven box.
Unless Amir has tested it I won’t buy it. He has never tested Arcam and I think it is bogus high end likely from seeing the idiotic insides of my two Arcam units. No AVRs test that well it seems though I enjoy the features of my Marantz sr7005 for home theatre. It has weak amps and I’ve had it shut down at high volumes so I now use an Outlaw 5000 instead from the marantz pre-outs. I will put together a good two channel system from Amir’s recommendations eventually.
If you want a good AVR buy something besides Arcam. The interface on Marantz is pathetic so I would not even do that again.
First post to ASR. Thanks I love this site.

 

[Cahudson42]

would buy separate amp for front if needed in future and use AVR to power rest of the system.

This is a good idea with any hi channel AVR for more than just providing adequate audio power. Most of these AVRs are both under power supplied and under heatsinked. By added 2 or more external amps, you offload demands on both in the AVR. Less sag in the AVR PS also helps maintain performance in the remaining channels. For this, you will need an AVR with all-channel Line outs. I was serious several posts back on the $399 Onkyo TX -820. You can't beat it for $399. Has line outs, and room correction (No Audessey but it works.)

Buy from Amazon and run the heck out of it during the 30-day return window. Buy a couple older stereo amps/receivers like Yamaha AX-596 for the external amps. Cheap. (You could instead get a new as501/701 for the external amp, and still be within budget) A couple USB fans sucking up on top of the Onkyo won't hurt.

Onkyo TX-RZ820 THX-Certified 7.2-Channel 4K Network A/V Receiver https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071VF518B/

Another suggestion: If you are using the AVRs HDMI, stay away from Any unit, all brands, that are more than about 3 years old. That way you avoid the notorious TI HDMI multiplexer chip that unsoldered itself. Almost universally used back then..

Good Luck and Enjoy!

 

[bullet0770]

I would avoid Arcam personally. I’ve had two (AVP600 and AVR350) and definitely bought them for the snoot factor. They were, albeit, from the disastrous Arcam experiment with Chinese manufacturing. Both suffered from terminal hums that could not be cured. They sounded good but for the hum I couldn’t live with. I bought them used so had no ability to return them. An Israeli fellow sells a kit of about 120 parts to replace to apparently cure the hum but I’m not up to that. He says caps and diodes are lousy and regulators don’t handle the current and overheat. The accountants almost ruined Arcam with this experiment in cheap manufacturing and lousy capacitors and voltage regulators. And the PCBs are so crummy that you have to used a temperature controlled soldering station or the traces lift off the board. Ask me how I know.
And poor manufacturing isn’t all. The design of these units was very strange and not standard practice. There was a power supply board but in addition there were I think another half dozen or so separate power supplies distributed on various boards. Each with diode bridges and capacitors and regulators. Voltages were off spec. and not well regulated. This meant AC running all through many of the amp’s seven PCBs. What a potential for noise that is! Some boards had through hole, some had surface mount. Separate design teams likely throwing their contributions into a committee designed, accountant driven box.
Unless Amir has tested it I won’t buy it. He has never tested Arcam and I think it is bogus high end likely from seeing the idiotic insides of my two Arcam units. No AVRs test that well it seems though I enjoy the features of my Marantz sr7005 for home theatre. It has weak amps and I’ve had it shut down at high volumes so I now use an Outlaw 5000 instead from the marantz pre-outs. I will put together a good two channel system from Amir’s recommendations eventually.
If you want a good AVR buy something besides Arcam. The interface on Marantz is pathetic so I would not even do that again.
First post to ASR. Thanks I love this site.

Thanks for your detailed reply. Interesting, usually people love Arcam and vouch for spending more money for them, good to hear your thoughts. I am thinking NAD as it has Dirac live but only has 3 HDMI inputs.

This is a good idea with any hi channel AVR for more than just providing adequate audio power. Most of these AVRs are both under power supplied and under heatsinked. By added 2 or more external amps, you offload demands on both in the AVR. Less sag in the AVR PS also helps maintain performance in the remaining channels. For this, you will need an AVR with all-channel Line outs. I was serious several posts back on the $399 Onkyo TX -820. You can't beat it for $399. Has line outs, and room correction (No Audessey but it works.)

Buy from Amazon and run the heck out of it during the 30-day return window. Buy a couple older stereo amps/receivers like Yamaha AX-596 for the external amps. Cheap. (You could instead get a new as501/701 for the external amp, and still be within budget) A couple USB fans sucking up on top of the Onkyo won't hurt.

Onkyo TX-RZ820 THX-Certified 7.2-Channel 4K Network A/V Receiver https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071VF518B/

Another suggestion: If you are using the AVRs HDMI, stay away from Any unit, all brands, that are more than about 3 years old. That way you avoid the notorious TI HDMI multiplexer chip that unsoldered itself. Almost universally used back then..

Good Luck and Enjoy!

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I like the idea of getting better DAC, Room correction and later add AMP for front setup. The AVR you mention only does 5.2.2 with ATMOS, I am looking for few more channels if I want to add ATMOS later. I am thinking ARCAM AVR390, NAD T758 (but only three HDMI) or Denon 4500H ($899).

 

[Dj7675]

Hi All,

I came to know about this site through amir's AVR measurements. I am looking for a new receiver for my basement home theater projector. This will be used for mainly movies and some gaming or sports. My budget is around $1500, please help me find a good AVR. I read Arcam is good but out of my price range ? older model ? I have Denon 3313CI in my living room upstairs.

Can I just use CD player and amplifier ? Only thing is later I would be adding PC to the system(madVr) for movies.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I’ve been in this situation as well... a few bullet points
-Had the NAD T758 V3. Dirac works well. If you have to listed at a level of 0 to -10 on the master volume, subjectively it sounded harsh to me. Looking at the measurements of the poor amp and DAC sections, I believe these issues can be a problem for some people, in some situations. If you run 2 or more subs, it won’t eq them independently and will need a minidsp or something. Also, no on screen display which drove me crazy as my unit is in a hidden rack.
-I have Dirac in our living room and my main music listening space and it does work great. I tried to locate another brand with Dirac and almost went separates with an Emotiva XMC2. Decided against it because I don’t have the patience and just need things to work.
-I ended up going back to Audissey XT32 for our home theater. The main reason I switched back is due to the app. If you are only wanting to fix room issues/eq the say below 1k/500/300hz, Audyssey XT32 does a good job. With the app you can create a room curve, set up what frequency range you want apply Audyssey to. Also, most of the Marantz models have independent sub outs and do a very good job equalizing dual subs. I would recommend measuring with REW to double check the results. While the app works, it is a bit of a pain to use. You have to add points/draw your curve for each speaker pair which is seems ridiculous to not be able to have 1 curve you want to use and apply it to multiple pairs of speakers. So it isn’t perfect but you can get very good results.
-I ended up with a Denon X8500, new full warranty, for $2700 delivered and have been happy with it. At some point, I will send it to Amir to measure. I probably could have went with an 3600/4400/4500/6400/6500 but there were some features I wanted in the x8500.
If stability is important, the Denon/Marantz models are a good choice. If you want Dirac, I would probably go with the Arcam 390.

 

[bullet0770]

I’ve been in this situation as well... a few bullet points
-Had the NAD T758 V3. Dirac works well. If you have to listed at a level of 0 to -10 on the master volume, subjectively it sounded harsh to me. Looking at the measurements of the poor amp and DAC sections, I believe these issues can be a problem for some people, in some situations. If you run 2 or more subs, it won’t eq them independently and will need a minidsp or something. Also, no on screen display which drove me crazy as my unit is in a hidden rack.
-I have Dirac in our living room and my main music listening space and it does work great. I tried to locate another brand with Dirac and almost went separates with an Emotiva XMC2. Decided against it because I don’t have the patience and just need things to work.
-I ended up going back to Audissey XT32 for our home theater. The main reason I switched back is due to the app. If you are only wanting to fix room issues/eq the say below 1k/500/300hz, Audyssey XT32 does a good job. With the app you can create a room curve, set up what frequency range you want apply Audyssey to. Also, most of the Marantz models have independent sub outs and do a very good job equalizing dual subs. I would recommend measuring with REW to double check the results. While the app works, it is a bit of a pain to use. You have to add points/draw your curve for each speaker pair which is seems ridiculous to not be able to have 1 curve you want to use and apply it to multiple pairs of speakers. So it isn’t perfect but you can get very good results.
-I ended up with a Denon X8500, new full warranty, for $2700 delivered and have been happy with it. At some point, I will send it to Amir to measure. I probably could have went with an 3600/4400/4500/6400/6500 but there were some features I wanted in the x8500.
If stability is important, the Denon/Marantz models are a good choice. If you want Dirac, I would probably go with the Arcam 390.

Thanks for your detailed reply! I was hoping NAD test well. Only options in my budget now are ARCAM avr390 or miniDsp (no ATMOS as of now). If I don't find anything I will go with Denon 4500H, is yamaha better option ?