Help needed amplifiers for Blade Meta 2

[Descartes]

If they have a signature it is written in invisible ink.
Keith

 

[Descartes]

So funny!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Do they sound any different? If you believe that amplification has a sound signature?

Read my review.

 

[goral]

I think it does have a sound signature and that's why best-measuring amps are not necessarily the best sounding ones (b/c people may prefer some "colouring" on top of the original soundwaves).

 

[Purité Audio]

Yup there are some really poorly engineered products around, although I can’t imagine why anyone would buy one.
Keith

 

[BeeKay]

Yup there are some really poorly engineered products around, although I can’t imagine why anyone would buy one.
Keith

A) marketing BS
B) bought reviews
C) prestige (the price is the product)
D) overall bad judgement
tbc

 

[KL....]

I think it does have a sound signature and that's why best-measuring amps are not necessarily the best sounding ones (b/c people may prefer some "colouring" on top of the original soundwaves).

Thank you @goral, yes, but only if the Amps Noise/Distortion and/or non-Linearity can be considered as being Masking of the Contrast of the (Recorded/Original) Music, reasonable, or for the Setup the Amp has Matching/Compatablety issues, for example....

• low Input Impedance, ie 2K, when the Device feeding has high Output Impedance, such as 1K and definitely an issue if =>2K, hence why Unity/Matching Buffers are utilised/required, reasonable?
• unable to drive the min Impedance of the Speaker via too high Output Impedance and/or unable to feed/supply the required Current, hence why Audio Transformers are utilised/required, reasonable?

If People like colouring of the (recorded) Music, which can be considered as their own Masking of the Contrast of the (recorded) Music and not the Recorded/Original Music Contrast, then they are searching for their own (played) Contrast/Masking of the Recorded/Original Music Contrast (also refered to as a Synergy), aren't they, reasonable?

Thank you, for consideration
KL

 

[kidprofessor]

10 feet from the speakers

You will have plenty of power with the Benchmark Monoblocks at that distance. You could make 109 DB at 10ft listening position. That's front row at a rock concert levels. https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/calculators/simple-spl-calculator

 

[JRowland]

I considered the AHB2 to drive my Kef R5 metas but ended up going with an Anthem MCA 225 gen2. I use a MCA 325 to drive R7 metas and an R6 meta and that definitely added weight to my decision to save a little. At times I like loud (not quite concert level but I’d bet close) electronic music with deep bass (sometimes for several hours straight) and the Anthem has no problem rattling the house.

 

[steve59]

I'm no engineer but I think the difference from me switching to the mc611's is the dynamic headroom provided by the amps! At low volume with the meters bouncing between .06 and .6 of a watt music now has some foot tapping weight that just wasn't there with the lower rated amps.

 

[KL....]

I'm no engineer but I think the difference from me switching to the mc611's is the dynamic headroom provided by the amps! At low volume with the meters bouncing between .06 and .6 of a watt music now has some foot tapping weight that just wasn't there with the lower rated amps.

Thank you @steve59, No, not Dynamic Headroom, why, the meters indicate 0.06W/Min to 0.6W/Max of Power/W for the (played) Music, don’t they?
Let’s look at this a little more closely/further, for consideration….

• Kef Blade Meta 2 Speaker SPL/Sensetivety = 86dB/2.83V/1W/1m, Listening Position = 3m
• Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks = 74.2db/SPL of 86dB/0.6W/3m (Listening Position)
• Min Listening Level = 64.2db/SPL of 86dB/0.06W/3m (Listening Position)
• Allowing for 20db Listening Headroom below Transient Peaks = 54.2db/SPL of 86dB/0.006W/3m (Listening Position)

To accommodate Transient Peaks and for 74.2db/SPL of 86dB/0.6W/3m, Dynamic headroom is not needed, is it? Even a 1W Amp (as indicated by the 86dB/Speaker Sensetivety/3m Listening Position) can deliver the required Wattage with more Listening Headroom than required, can’t it?

• To be concise & precise, for Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks of 86db/SPL & 3m Listening Position, you only need a 10W Amp but once the Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks are >86db then the required Amp doubles in Wattage every 3db for Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks where…. 89dB/20W, 92dB/40W, 95dB/80W, 98dB/160W, 101dB/320W (it has been suggested this is where the magic begins, for Transient Peaks/Apparently), etc, reasonable?
• Hence the saying, ‘Speaker Sensetivety/Gain trumps Amplifyer Power/Gain’, but there other sayings, such as ‘First Watt’ and ‘Watts are now (dirt) cheap’, reasonable?

Re music now has some foot tapping weight that just wasn't there with the lower rated amps…. it can be suggested, and hopefully, that this is to do with the presented Music Contrast of the (Recorded) Music that you are playing and not to do with Dynamic Headroom (as suggested above). Where to look for the reason….

• First can you clarify what you mean by ‘lower rated amps’?
• McIntosh mc611 specs…. THD = 0.005%, SNR = 124dB/Balanced or 120dB/Unbalanced (both Exceptional), and FR +/-0.25dB 20Hz/20kHz (Exceptional, very Linear)
• Kef Blade Meta 2/Min Impedance/s.... 35-40Hz/3.2R, 80-200Hz/3.5R-3.7R, 600-900Hz/<4R.
  • The Amp needs to easyly deliver (ie requires Delivery Headroom below 3.2R) the required current/A without Voltage/V Drooping/Saging (Speakers like to see a Constant Voltage Source, don’t they?), reasonable?
• The Amp requires Matching/Compatablety with the Device Feeding where….
  • if its Input Impedance is 20K-50K then (usually) no issues and even 10K is (usually) ok, reasonable?
  • it needs to be able to accept the Feeding Devices output Voltage and its output Current, without issue, reasonable?
• Room, for this post/discussion, it is assumed that nothing other than the Amp/s have changed.

Why is Contrast important, especially as all Music is Harmonic Distortion, even the Fundamental is the 1st Harmonic, isn't it? Music must be non-Linear and it is the Harmonic Synergy(Mix)/Harmony that is recorded but/although all (playback) Devices must be Linear and have No Sound/Masking, why, so that we enjoy the Music as recorded/intended, reasonable?

• As such, with the McIntosh mc611, it can be suggested that the 'foot tapping weight' is linked to the presented Contrast of the Recorded Music when played through your System/Setup & Room and how well the Recorded/Played Back Contrast is presented, reasonable?
• Contrast provides Clarity, a Real/Rightness, Delineation, Perception/Recognition, and many other characteristics, especially those that we are familiar with, doesn't it?

 

[goral]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown! I have to admit, I got a little lost in the technical format—it felt a bit like I was debating a calculator for a second there.
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re saying that because Steve is only using 0.6 watts, he's nowhere near using the amp's extra 'headroom,' so that shouldn't be the reason for the better sound.
Could you explain the 'Current vs. Voltage' part in layman's terms? Why does the 600W amp have that 'foot-tapping weight' at low volumes if a 10W amp technically has enough power on paper? That’s the part I’m trying to wrap my head around

 

[KL....]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown! I have to admit, I got a little lost in the technical format—it felt a bit like I was debating a calculator for a second there.
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re saying that because Steve is only using 0.6 watts, he's nowhere near using the amp's extra 'headroom,' so that shouldn't be the reason for the better sound.
Could you explain the 'Current vs. Voltage' part in layman's terms? Why does the 600W amp have that 'foot-tapping weight' at low volumes if a 10W amp technically has enough power on paper? That’s the part I’m trying to wrap my head around

Kef Blade Meta 2/Min Impedance/s.... 35-40Hz/3.2R, 80-200Hz/3.5R-3.7R, 600-900Hz/<4R.

• The Amp needs to easyly deliver (ie requires Delivery Headroom below 3.2R) the required current/A without Voltage/V Drooping/Saging (Speakers like to see a Constant Voltage Source, don’t they?), reasonable?

Thank you @goral, Yes, sometimes it does feel like being a 'calculator', doesn't it, but the formula V=I x R applys, doesn't it?

• If the Voltage/V droops/Sags then, as such, more current is necessary. If the Amp cannot supply the necessary (instantaneous) I/current than the Speaker cannot perform as designed/implemented, can it?
• Same same principle applys for Low Impedance. The lower the Impedance more current is necessary, reasonable? If the Amp cannot supply the necessary (instantaneous) I/current than the Speaker cannot perform as designed/implemented, can it?

If a 10W amp can supply the V and I then it will perform just like a 600W amp but with Power/W restrictions, as shown here....

• To be concise & precise, for Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks of 86db/SPL & 3m Listening Position, you only need a 10W Amp but once the Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks are >86db then the required Amp doubles in Wattage every 3db for Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks where…. 89dB/20W, 92dB/40W, 95dB/80W, 98dB/160W, 101dB/320W (it has been suggested this is where the magic begins, for Transient Peaks/Apparently), etc, reasonable?
• For the Kef Blade Meta 2 Speaker SPL/Sensetivety = 86dB/2.83V/1W/1m, Listening Position = 3m.... It could Deliver Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks of 86dB but not above that Level, reasonable?
  • As such, for Max Listening Level/Transient Peaks = 74.2db/SPL of 86dB/0.6W/3m (Listening Position), if the McIntosh mc611 only Delivered 10W then it would be reasonable to expect the same 'foot tapping weight' as the McIntosh mc611/600W Amp, but only <=86dB/10W is available for the Kef Blade Meta 2 Speakers (Amplifier requirements 50-400W. Note that 50W is about 93.4db/SPL & 400W is about 102.5db/SPL, aren't they?), reasonable?
  • Note though that the McIntosh mc611/600W Amp can Deliver output for (a little) >101dB/320W, in combination with the Kef Blade Meta 2 Speakers (Amplifier requirements 50-400W), reasonable?

 

[steve59]

KL, Thanks for the breakdown. I see the math and since I use the same songs for testing gear the other difference I can suggest is mac's autoformers have something to do wlth output.

 

[KL....]

KL, Thanks for the breakdown. I see the math and since I use the same songs for testing gear the other difference I can suggest is mac's autoformers have something to do wlth output.

Thank you @steve59, they appear to assist (not Hinder) with Linearity and V/I Delivery, don't they, without Masking/Adding or do they a little but hopefully none?

If (Recorded) Contrast is presented well (without Masking) then you should be able to Listen to many (perhaps all) types of Genre and enjoy them as they were Recorded, reasonable?

 

[goral]

Hey OP, did you decide on anything?

 

[Oddball]

There are many great amps as noted in this thread. But with the looks of Blades, I would match it to the best looking amp that suits your taste and you can afford. So would exclude all budget options, as assuming budget is not an issue. If budget is an issue, well, than choose what you like within that range.

 

[goral]

I think that's also one of the problems: I haven't seen a top-shelf build, really good measuring amp. There is no "high class" amp (good-looking, usually expensive) that ASR community wouldn't shit on:
- McIntosh? "Oh, I'd never buy anything Mc"
- Hegel H590(H600)? "We haven't seen measurements but I wouldn't get anywhere near this brand"
- Parasound? "Oh, this is just 1970s design refreshed over and over again"
etc.

Usually the best-measuring amps are some kind of "cheap" Class-D amplifiers.

 

[Geert]

Boulder measures well, as do the Cambridge Edge series. Look at my avatar at the left ... And there are more. And Hegel, we do have measurements (and pictures of how they’re build).

 

[Oddball]

I think that's also one of the problem: I haven't seen a top-shelf build, really good measuring amp. Every "high class" amp (good-looking, usually expensive) that ASR community wouldn't shit on:
- McIntosh? "Oh, I'd never buy anything Mc"
- Hegel? "We haven't seen measurements but I wouldn't get anywhere near to this brand"
- Parasound? "Oh, this is just 1970s design refreshed over and over again"
etc.

Usually the best-measuring amps are some kind of "cheap" Class-D amplifiers.

These are all great amps IMO - speaking of brands in general, not specific models. People here are focused on measured performance, not design, so there is natural push back on price. It's kind of get best ratio between price and measurements. Few care about the looks.

On one hand the argument on ASR is that SINAD beyond certain point is not audible benefit, but then such components get slammed on basis of inferior engineering. Both are true, but the first one IMO prevails. Why would you buy an ugly box that you have to look at all the time if you can't hear a difference?

My amps are 15 years old, and aesthetics had a lot to do with the choice. Barely swallowed the Brystons as at best "neutral" but they were the most I was willing to pay at that time for the performance I wanted from LCR. Tried newer D class amps on trial from the dealer (Storm 16) and honestly could not hear or measure any difference.

Even my lower performing Rotel amps have somehow managed to get on Amir's recommended list. I guess it was his happy day so Rotel got lucky and they perhaps got the pardon due to age.

Rotel RB-1070 Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Rotel RB-1070 stereo power amplifier. It was released in early 2000. Can't find the cost then but I see it used for around $400 to $500. I have always found Rotels to be most attractively designed power amplifiers. One look at that front panel...

www.audiosciencereview.com