Help needed amplifiers for Blade Meta 2

[Kal Rubinson]

The design of the Blade Meta 2 Speakers suggests that they need to be Toed In to/towards the Listening Position, why?, well the Mid/Woofer Drivers are (effectively) Dipole but side to side, not Front to Back. If positioned straight then the inside Drivers will interact with each other (Nulling Effects will and are likely to occur) and the outside Drivers will interact with the side Walls (Nulling Effects will and are likely to occur, due to Reflection/s), is that correct?

Considering the wavelengths involved, moderate toe-in should have no effect on bass. Speaker-to-speaker distance may be more relevant.

When Toed In, the inside Drivers will interact (at an angle/reflection) with the Back Wall and provide (forward) L/R Image Centering and the outside Drivers will interact with the side Wall but with a much more forward Reflection, reasonable? Toeing them In will allow them be appear more like Open Baffle but with better Bass (an expectation), especially due to better utiliseation of Side/Rear Reflections, reasonable?

No. As I said above, moderate toe-in is not relevant for the frequencies from these drivers. FWIW, KEF recommends no (or little) toe-in.

With the Rear Vent and Toeing them In then they would need to be positioned at a (appropriate) distance/s from the Rear/Side Walls which if done correctly will allow them to perform like an Open Baffle Speaker, reasonable?

The distances to all boundaries is significant (SBIR) but I do not see your point.

If correct, what does the above mean for the Blade Meta 2 Speakers? It can be suggested that some Setup/Positioning time, for Listening Position & Room, will be needed to allow them to perform at their best, especially for a Live End/Dead End (Rear Wall Reflections) approach, reasonable?

Sure, careful setup/positioning is always necessary regardless of the environment and even though I do not see the point of you specific references. Even with the added complexity and assistance of Dirac-ART, it has taken me months to "get it right" and, fwiw, with no toe-in.

 

[goral]

@Kal Rubinson any tips on where to start or purely trial and error?

Right now I have mines around 2.5m apart, 20-30cm to the back wall and approx. 2m to side walls. Not gonna lie, moving them around is not an easy task

 

[Kal Rubinson]

@Kal Rubinson any tips on where to start or purely trial and error?

Right now I have mines around 2.5m apart, 20-30cm to the back wall and approx. 2m to side walls. Not gonna lie, moving them around is not an easy task

What are your room dimensions and what is the listening distance?

 

[goral]

Listening distance is 2-3m as my room has complex shape - more like trapezoid of some kind with a couch along the angled wall. When I used Dirac, I sat at 3m from the speakers. Then I have a wall around 1m behind me.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Listening distance is 2-3m as my room has complex shape - more like trapezoid of some kind with a couch along the angled wall. When I used Dirac, I sat at 3m from the speakers. Then I have a wall around 1m behind me.

What you have described is a good starting point, even though you do not provide actual dimensions, but I am concerned about your 1m distance from the back wall. I'd begin by treating that wall unless you can get farther from it.

 

[goral]

I can get further from it, but I would be getting closer to the speakers then I read somewhere that best places for a listening position are at 1/3 and 2/3 of the distance between speakers and the back wall. That some modes nullify in those spots?

 

[mcochris]

The Blade 2's reproduce a lot of bass for their size, I imagine that room/system is really fun

Confirmed! Everyone who’s heard them has commented on the prodigious bass response, no sub needed. One of my favorite test tracks for bass performance is Genesis’ Second Home by the Sea. Tony Banks does a great job building that sound.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I can get further from it, but I would be getting closer to the speakers then I read somewhere that best places for a listening position are at 1/3 and 2/3 of the distance between speakers and the back wall. That some modes nullify in those spots?

Yes. There are tools for finding the modes but mostly for rectangular spaces. The tools for complex spaces are...........complex. OTOH, I am guessing your room is ~5m in total depth and you might experiment with the listening distance to avoid critical distance from the back wall. Closer may be OK.

 

[tineared]

Confirmed! Everyone who’s heard them has commented on the prodigious bass response, no sub needed. One of my favorite test tracks for bass performance is Genesis’ Second Home by the Sea. Tony Banks does a great job building that sound.

If you keep talking like that, Phil is going to be very upset with you
Tony was the keyboard player
Definitely a thumpin' track though

 

[TommyM]

look at the amp specifications and make sure you are getting clean, low noise floor. I use bryston for my blade ones. 20 year warranty. Kef will say use 90 to 110 percent of max power. Can go higher. so want min 360 to 440 watts. my bryson is 1000 watts. You will blow your speakers under powering them.

 

[ahofer]

You can get more power than you need, much more cost effectively than Bryson, with a Purifi-based amp such as @Buckeye Amps (or @boXem or Nord in Europe). All you need for $1,195:

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

I had a Bryston amp, and it was built like a tank. But there’s no need to lay out that kind of dough now. Or at least no need that is connected to sound.

 

[madFloyd]

So... I purchased Benchmark's amps and preamp. I needed something to test out my KEF Reference 3's in our new room. The plan for some time has been to get Blade 2's and I figured the Reference 3's (which I had purchased used some months ago for my home theater but only got around to doing something with them this week) would be a decent test of what I'm dealing with in terms of room/tonal balance etc.

The room is large but the space where the speakers will live is small and hardly ideal.

So far I'm very impressed with the sound - as is my wife. They project all across the room into the kitchen and they can play loud & clean with good punch and are not fatiguing. My previous system was comprised of very expensive Magico speakers and CH electronics and while the room plays a huge role, I'm not missing the old system.

Now we're questioning if we need the Blade 2's.... (or how much better they would be).

 

[quattro98]

That looks like a great space. Is your home theater in a separate room or will this be a multichannel system?

FWIW, In our system (still in progress after moving 4 years ago), the Ref 3 Meta is great. I went with the Ref 3 & 2 Meta for LCR since they are smaller than the Blade 2 & Ref 5 and look nice to us in our living room (which will house a 7.4.4 system). We have 4 subs (only 2 in use right now, so 7.2.4), so effectively all of them are satellite speakers.

I see Blades on the internet and think about them, but when I listen at home, I don’t find myself wanting more from our speakers. When I occasionally go to an audio store and listen to 2 channel systems, I’ll come home and play mine in direct mode to only listen to the speakers and I find them entirely satisfying. If I didn’t have subs, I’d probably prefer the Ref 5 or Blade 2 or 1 for the extra bass, but even in our room (about 20’x23’ but open to another space), the Ref 3 seem fine. The speakers with the 4 woofers are more sensitive, so the Ref 3 must have the Uni-Q brought down in level to match the pair of woofers.

So... I purchased Benchmark's amps and preamp. I needed something to test out my KEF Reference 3's in our new room. The plan for some time has been to get Blade 2's and I figured the Reference 3's (which I had purchased used some months ago for my home theater but only got around to doing something with them this week) would be a decent test of what I'm dealing with in terms of room/tonal balance etc.

The room is large but the space where the speakers will live is small and hardly ideal.

So far I'm very impressed with the sound - as is my wife. They project all across the room into the kitchen and they can play loud & clean with good punch and are not fatiguing. My previous system was comprised of very expensive Magico speakers and CH electronics and while the room plays a huge role, I'm not missing the old system.

Now we're questioning if we need the Blade 2's.... (or how much better they would be).

 

[madFloyd]

That looks like a great space. Is your home theater in a separate room or will this be a multichannel system?

FWIW, In our system (still in progress after moving 4 years ago), the Ref 3 Meta is great. I went with the Ref 3 & 2 Meta for LCR since they are smaller than the Blade 2 & Ref 5 and look nice to us in our living room (which will house a 7.4.4 system). We have 4 subs (only 2 in use right now, so 7.2.4), so effectively all of them are satellite speakers.

I see Blades on the internet and think about them, but when I listen at home, I don’t find myself wanting more from our speakers. When I occasionally go to an audio store and listen to 2 channel systems, I’ll come home and play mine in direct mode to only listen to the speakers and I find them entirely satisfying. If I didn’t have subs, I’d probably prefer the Ref 5 or Blade 2 or 1 for the extra bass, but even in our room (about 20’x23’ but open to another space), the Ref 3 seem fine. The speakers with the 4 woofers are more sensitive, so the Ref 3 must have the Uni-Q brought down in level to match the pair of woofers.

The home theater is in another room (where these Reference 3's might end up - black doesn't work for us in the room I photographed).

May I ask what subs you use (and electronics)?

 

[steve59]

Since the Ref 3 are placed in a bit of a cubby and Blades use multiple side firing woofers I would probably NOT consider them for purchase without a home demo/30 day return policy. The demo's of the Kef Ref 3 at Axpona 1 year driven by Hegel integrateds was something that stayed with me for how well the combo survived the small hotel rooms compared to competitive models.

 

[madFloyd]

Since the Ref 3 are placed in a bit of a cubby and Blades use multiple side firing woofers I would probably NOT consider them for purchase without a home demo/30 day return policy. The demo's of the Kef Ref 3 at Axpona 1 year driven by Hegel integrateds was something that stayed with me for how well the combo survived the small hotel rooms compared to competitive models.

I was wondering about that aspect. To the left is the entrance to my media room/theater but to the right is a doorless closet that would probably need absorption.

 

[quattro98]

Nice! We live in a condo, so only have a living room system (no separate HT).

Here’s our current and work in progress system.
LCR: KEF Reference 3 Meta & Reference 2 Meta
Surround: R3 Meta
Rear: LS 50 Meta (on custom brackets since this room really doesn’t have space for rear speakers, but I was determined to have 7 channels)
Atmos: Ci250RRM-THX x4
Subs: Revel B112v2 x4 (only 2 in use right now). The subs needed to look good and be fairly small. These have a nice wood finish and don’t look like the usual black box (substantial visual upgrade from a pair for Rhythmik L22 I used before to get subs in a small footprint). I think they were being discontinued, so they were 1/2 price which helps with buying 4 of anything.
LCR amps: Hypex Nilai mono

Currently everything is running off my trusty Denon AVR-X8500H (hence the 2 subs). This provides processing and amps for surrounds until I decide on a Dirac ART solution. I have a Buckeye NCx252MP 8-channel amp on order to take care of the surrounds. AVP will likely be either a Marantz AVP30 or Stormaudio Core16+. Both will work with the 7.4.4 setup we have.

The home theater is in another room (where these Reference 3's might end up - black doesn't work for us in the room I photographed).

May I ask what subs you use (and electronics)?

 

[Reddoc]

So... I purchased Benchmark's amps and preamp. I needed something to test out my KEF Reference 3's in our new room. The plan for some time has been to get Blade 2's and I figured the Reference 3's (which I had purchased used some months ago for my home theater but only got around to doing something with them this week) would be a decent test of what I'm dealing with in terms of room/tonal balance etc.

The room is large but the space where the speakers will live is small and hardly ideal.

So far I'm very impressed with the sound - as is my wife. They project all across the room into the kitchen and they can play loud & clean with good punch and are not fatiguing. My previous system was comprised of very expensive Magico speakers and CH electronics and while the room plays a huge role, I'm not missing the old system.

Now we're questioning if we need the Blade 2's.... (or how much better they would be).
View attachment 506635

I would like to support you in that you seem to have moved in to a new house and set up the hifi before the rest of the household items are even upacked.
This is clearly the correct approach and one which I stick with every time.
Enjoy, Blades or no
Regards,

 

[madFloyd]

I would like to support you in that you seem to have moved in to a new house and set up the hifi before the rest of the household items are even upacked.
This is clearly the correct approach and one which I stick with every time.
Enjoy, Blades or no
Regards,

We all have our priorities!