Help me upgrade from NAD 3020v2.

[bkkchris]

Looking to potentially upgrade from my NAD 3020 V2. I don't upgrade often so what something that will last for a while, but is a meaningful enough upgrade from the basic NAD.

My listening tends to be 75% Spotify Connect (via Wiim Mini) and 25% Vinyl (old Rega Planar 2 w. NAD PP1 phono).

Mostly electronic and jazz styles and typically lower-mid volume. Room is a small 10x15ft space.

I prefer something in a slim case design and since the NAD is class-D, thought it might be time to move to class-A/B for something different, and since most of my listening is via streaming I would really want something with the "best" sounding integrated DAC (not interested in a separate DAC).

Not sure these first two would be a huge upgrade, but very well reviewed:
Audiolab 6000a - $750
Rotel A12 mk2 - $850

Stepping up to about as much as I want to spend at the moment would be:
Rotel A14 mk2 - $1200

Or really pushing my budget to the new:
Audiolab 7000a - $1750

Do you think I will get any real appreciable sound quality improvement with an upgrade to make the cost worth it?

Currently using Q Acoustic 3020's (no sub), but trialing Wharfedale 4.1, Wharfedale Denton 85th, Dali Oberon 3 for a potential upgrade.

Thanks! in advance.

 

[solderdude]

Is the NAD broken ?
What do you expect to gain ?
Do you want more power ?

 

[bkkchris]

Is the NAD broken ?
What do you expect to gain ?
Do you want more power ?

Fair question. I guess just generally better sound "quality". More detailed soundstage and imaging, and whilst my room is rather small, I do feel like more power would be helpful as even with my small Q Acoustic 3020's the volume has to be bumped up really high.

 

[DVDdoug]

Do you think I will get any real appreciable sound quality improvement with an upgrade to make the cost worth it?

Probably not, since you didn't mention anything wrong and you didn't say it's not going loud enough, etc.

Most amplifiers are very good unless you overdrive them into clipping (distortion). If there's an issue with sound quality it's usually noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background).

The weak link is almost always the speakers/headphones. Room acoustics change the sound too. And of course your vinyl records.

since the NAD is class-D, thought it might be time to move to class-A/B for something different,

Any class can be good. Class-D is the most energy efficient. It runs cooler, sending most of the power to the speakers instead of converting it to heat) and you generally get more watts-per-dollar. Class-A is horrible for energy efficiency, consuming about as much power when idle and as when putting-out full-power to the speakers, and it tends to be the most expensive per-watt.

 

[solderdude]

Fair question. I guess just generally better sound "quality". More detailed soundstage and imaging

It is not going to help with this. Despite the many 'reports' of certain amps performing such miracles.

, and whilst my room is rather small, I do feel like more power would be helpful as even with my small Q Acoustic 3020's the volume has to be bumped up really high.

When you want to go louder, as in the sound becomes 'coarser' when you turn up the volume and want a bit more than another amplifier could be a solution.
Don't bother with just a few Watt more but you would need to at least double or triple the power.

 

[anotherhobby]

If you are looking for an actual improvement in sound quality, take the opportunity to upgrade to DSP. The miniDSP Flex with with the Dirac Live upgrade would offer real audible improvements, and it has lots of flexibility for future upgrades (like crossovers for subs). You just need to add an external amp.

Full disclosure: I upgraded from a NAD 3020v2 to a miniDSP Flex with an external amp and never looked back.

 

[Grotti]

Another way of improving the sound quality could be a good Subwoofer. You listen to electronic music and your speakers are limited to about 60 Hz (anechoic). So since your Nad seems to have a Subwoofer out: why not choose this route to enjoy your music in whole bandwidth?

 

[anotherhobby]

Another way of improving the sound quality could be a good Subwoofer. You listen to electronic music and your speakers are limited to about 60 Hz (anechoic). So since your Nad seems to have a Subwoofer out: why not choose this route to enjoy your music in whole bandwidth?

Unfortunately the filter on the sub out on the NAD 3020v2 is fixed at 150Hz, and there is no crossover for the mains, making good sub integration challenging. That said, I completely agree that adding a subwoofer would be a big upgrade!

 

[Grotti]

Unfortunately the filter on the sub out on the NAD 3020v2 is fixed at 150Hz, and there is no crossover for the mains, making good sub integration challenging. That said, I completely agree that adding a subwoofer would be a big upgrade!

OK, sorry.... I should have checked this before posting.

 

[SMc]

OK, sorry.... I should have checked this before posting.

If using the sub out doesn't affect the main speakers, the sub's own crossover/filter control will do the job if you want a lower setting.

Adding a modest sub (JBL 550p) to my old Infinity 150s made a significant increase to my enjoyment of my 1st gen D3020.

 

[notsodeadlizard]

If I were you, I'd spend that budget on speakers.
Because your NAD with better speakers than you have is better than a very good Rotel A12 with your speakers.
I think so.

 

[ivayvr]

Another option would be to go for Bluesound Powernode (current version). If I remember correctly it is 2X80W so it can drive most or all speakers you would ever use in your room. It would replace your current streamer and offer very flexible connectivity options with a very decent control app. And the price difference from your most expensive option, Audiolab 7000a - $1750 would allow you to buy a REL TZero which is good enough for your room size or some better speakers or both.
I had a previous version of Powernode that replaced Rega Brio (current version) and never looked back.

 

[ZolaIII]

@bkkchris where are you from? To try to cook you something for that money that will pass reference point calibration (white noise [-20 dB] 83~86 dB mono/stereo) 25 Hz to 20 KHz in quality equipment. Also what's the listening distance?
For example this is Q3030i with 100W Yamaha and 10" 150W sub at 3m (10 ft) in little smaller room PEQ-ed of course.

 

[Bassett53]

Did you ever work out what to do. I have version 1 of the NAD 3020 which has half the power of yours - before I had the original 3020 and I think the class D version was an improvement. My room is about 26*12 feet and has 10 feet high ceilings and I have small bookshelf speakers from TEAC and it seems powerful enough but I mainly listen to acoustic music especially classical and opera. I too was thinking of upgrading but to an audiolab 9000a with Amphion argon 3S speakers. Do you think the cost would be worth it, in some ways my system is good enough but I have a bit of spare cash and it could be justified as my retirement present! But I would hate to drop 5k pounds on an upgrade and find no discernable improvement. I do know that the speaker in my Kawai piano seems better than my existing speakers especially with aggressively played lower piano notes and that complex symphonies lose some clarity compared to less complex music but I have headphones (although I prefer the speaker experience). I know I should test everything but I am in France which has much less opportunity than the UK. By the way I use a raspberry pi with picoreplayer connected directly to the USB of the 3020 and it impresses me more than Volumio.

 

[restorer-john]

Did you ever work out what to do.

I'd say the OP bailed, when people told him a whole bunch of stuff he didn't ask about. Such a pity people (ironically), don't listen.

Another one bites the dust...

 

[antcollinet]

Did you ever work out what to do. I have version 1 of the NAD 3020 which has half the power of yours - before I had the original 3020 and I think the class D version was an improvement. My room is about 26*12 feet and has 10 feet high ceilings and I have small bookshelf speakers from TEAC and it seems powerful enough but I mainly listen to acoustic music especially classical and opera. I too was thinking of upgrading but to an audiolab 9000a with Amphion argon 3S speakers. Do you think the cost would be worth it, in some ways my system is good enough but I have a bit of spare cash and it could be justified as my retirement present! But I would hate to drop 5k pounds on an upgrade and find no discernable improvement. I do know that the speaker in my Kawai piano seems better than my existing speakers especially with aggressively played lower piano notes and that complex symphonies lose some clarity compared to less complex music but I have headphones (although I prefer the speaker experience). I know I should test everything but I am in France which has much less opportunity than the UK. By the way I use a raspberry pi with picoreplayer connected directly to the USB of the 3020 and it impresses me more than Volumio.

My advice would be to go for the speaker upgrade without the amp upgrade to start with. As has been pointed out a number of times above, a different amp will not give you any significant sound improvement unless you are running out of power, or if your current amp is really badly performing on noise/distortion (which the NAD is not I think)

Speakers are where it is at for improving sound.

I'm making no comment on the Amphion speakers - I know nothing about them and they've not been reviewed here. Perhaps consider also looking at some of the speakers recommended here in a similar price bracket. At least find out if you can get a home audition of whatever you are looking at.

When you've got the speakers, you can then decide if you are lacking power in the amplification front. Even if you are, you might be better off considering a good sub rather than a new amp. A sub will give you lower frequency extension, but also off load a lot of the power need from the NAD amp, but you'd also need a way of crossing over from the mains to the sub to achieve that: You'd probably be in the game of thinking about room equalisation and associated hardware in that case - though depending on your Pi tech skills that can also be done in the pi with camilla dsp.

What are the speakers you are currently using. It would be useful to know the efficiency of these to understand what your power requirements might be with the new speakers.

Also worth considering active speakers if you are planning both speaker and amplification upgrades. 5K will get you some very nice actives.

 

[Bassett53]

Thank you for replying - I am well out of date on hifi and new stuff and I think my current system is now considered low fi! The speakers are teac LS-300 U and rated at 90 watts which according to an old review "they were pretty good 20 years ago but bright and harsh with very little bass". I am listening right now and not even on full they fill upstairs, and music by Brittany Spears has a very solid thump of a beat. But they are not so good for Beethoven (dynamics and clarity). So its not a power/loudness issue, for pop music they match the class D 3020 (30 watts per chanel) very well - I bought everything between 20 and 30 years ago so I have had good value for money and my picoreplayer just makes it a modern viable system but music tastes change. The amphion speakers (2,500 euros) are said to be very good in terms of clarity, detail and transparency. The Frequency response is 38 Hz–25,000 Hz (-6dB). They are on my list because the directed wave guide and passive radiator are useful in my very old house (odd shape room) and the bass is said to be tight (not heavy) and articulate by many reviewers, and they are considered easy to place and drive. I have identified the REL T7 (down to 31 Hertz) for my potential shopping list but I want to explore the new speakers first - I am not really keen on massive bass for rock etc because I mainly listen to acoustic music. The new speakers are rated at 50-150 watts but Steve Guttenburg has apparently used a 20 watt per chanel amp to power them so an amp upgrade can easily come afterwards. However, some people suggest a beefy amp to get the best from them - I think by this they are referring to having a good power source in the amplifier. If I upgrade the speakers I will be replacing the amp for sure because the old system can make its way to my wife's house in Thailand unless you suggest I am better off keeping my system untouched and not upgrading because now my ears only stretch to 12kHertz. If you don't mind there is one thing you can clear up for me - a piano goes down to 28Hertz so in my mind a subwoofer would not quite cover the whole keyboard range but I think I am misunderstanding what is achievable and what is not. Such a long life and I have not really learned so much. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

 

[nygafre]

The NAD D3020 V2 is a decent amp imo. I borrowed it for a time and I really liked it I would mainly focus on upgrading the speakers if I were you.

For that amount of money you can get e.g. the KEF R3 Metas.

I’ve previously owned and lived with the Amphion Argon 0’s and I quite liked them, albeit they did have a few caveats for my taste:

1. They had a slight increase/heightening of some higher frequencies, making them sound a little ‘sharp’ at times (I believe the Argon 3S use the same tweeter, but cannot know for sure if the same applies without the actual frequency response of the 3’s).

2. They were more sensitive to vertical positioning. Comparing this with the KEF’s, it has been much easier to get a more preferred and versatile listening experience with the R3 M’s. They have extremely good vertical directivity (and directivity in general), making little difference if I sit or lay on the couch, or stand.

3. Voices is my main thing to listen for when going ‘by ear’ for judging speakers. To me voices stand out.. I much prefer male vocals from the Kefs.. in my book they are as close to perfect as I could hope for.

There are other speakers to investigate too, mine is just one suggestion. Either way, you can use your D3020 v2 with the speakers you decide to get, imo.

Edit: seems I mixed the D3020 of basset53 and the D3020 v2 of the OP.

 

[ampguy]

I'd keep what you have. If it breaks, consider an SMSL A300 (or 2) which has a lower high pass (but fixed) sub out (100Hz on/off). Most subs will have low pass, but there is also a low pass on the sub out of the A300. I don't think you'd get better than this, without spending a few multiples. It has 2 inputs, but if you need a 3rd, you could get a Schiit SYS or something for $49 more.

 

[Bassett53]

ps thank you for letting me know about camilladsp, I am a linux programmer so I will give it a more detailed look. I had been thing of miniDSP which could fit between pre amp and power amp even on an integrated amp. I think some sort of dsp with wave guide directed speakers might minimise room correction. Because my existing speakers have very little bass I guess it has not been an issue before.