Help me pick speakers for my big room!

[Goran-P]

The jbl 708p could work, i have to check measurements vs the bookshelves. One reason I liked the kh310’s was their natural horizontal positioning. Vertically, i don’t think the 708’s would fit in the bookshelves .. without a bit of woodworking on my part. But Those specs and power look real good. Thanks

 

[Ellebob]

A number of horizontal speakers might be a good choice if they fit where you would like to place them. Focal, Adam or speakers that are coaxial and can be placed on their side like Genelec, Kali Audio, Kef, Etc.

 

[Matt_Holland]

The jbl 708p could work, i have to check measurements vs the bookshelves. One reason I liked the kh310’s was their natural horizontal positioning. Vertically, i don’t think the 708’s would fit in the bookshelves .. without a bit of woodworking on my part. But Those specs and power look real good. Thanks

We have KH310 in our small immersive studio (approx 6x4x2.5m) and they project a very small, precise image. Accurate beyond belief, but I would never recommend them for listening pleasure as they are just not enveloping enough.

 

[Hear Here]

So my latest thought is 2 nueumann kh 310

That speaker is described by the brand as a "nearfield monitor" so not really suitable in your room - you won't be sitting in the nearfield area! I would suggest that those speakers are primarily intended to improve computer sound as they are active and nearfield. Not hi-fi speakers even with subs added.

 

[Mart68]

That speaker is described by the brand as a "nearfield monitor" so not really suitable in your room - you won't be sitting in the nearfield area! I would suggest that those speakers are primarily intended to improve computer sound as they are active and nearfield. Not hi-fi speakers even with subs added.

They're intended to sit on a monitor bridge and be used for mixing. They are more hi-fidelity than most speakers but I agree not the best choice for the o/p's situation even with subs.

 

[Hear Here]

The whole system would look like this: rivo+ streamer -> minidsp shd studio w/ dirac live -> a) a good r2r dac (pontus 15?) -> kh 310s and shd -> b) decent a/d dac (topping d 50?) -> subs, run as r / l or dual mono.

How many boxes is that and how many cables are needed to string it all together? I've lost count! There's no CD player or turntable (that makes sense) so streaming is your primary source (also sensible if you subscribe to a high quality streaming service), so why not get a single box that does all you want with no snake-pit of cables? Lots to choose from, but my NAD M33 is a gem that offers Dirac Live if you need it and control of subs, plus plenty of power for the speakers that you are likely to end up with. There's a Version 2 recently released, though the V1 should be very suitable and currently great deals are available - new if dealers still have them, or used bargains.

 

[Waxx]

With the 708P, the amp is included in the speaker, so you may just need the MiniDSP with Dirac for room correction and to add subs if you want that. No other boxes needed but the streamer of choice. If you want to avoid that, there is also the MiniDSP SHD, that is a flex with streaming services. Or you can use your streamer of choice (connect digital) with the flex. The 708P is a pro audio monitor, so best is to use the balanced MiniDSP for ease of connection as it only has balanced inputs.

 

[Mort]

What is all this "monitors are only for nearfield' stuff. What's the science behind that?

 

[Blockader]

17000 cubic feet or 480 m3 room, just saying.

You need bigger speakers, much bigger for such room. Forget about speakers with dome tweeters, only speakers with compression drivers can handle such big room.

I recommend JBL M2, or Pitt & Giblin Superwax.

https://www.pittandgiblin.com.au/superwax:

 

[hch]

What is all this "monitors are only for nearfield' stuff. What's the science behind that?

It's mostly size and to a lesser degree perhaps dispersion. I wouldn't use a small speaker, monitor or otherwise, for the type of space and listening discussed here.

 

[Waxx]

What is all this "monitors are only for nearfield' stuff. What's the science behind that?

Dome tweeters and small woofers just don't have the power needed to fill a room like that. Sound volume and space are closely linked, with sound intensity decreasing by roughly 6 decibels for every doubling of distance from the source due to the inverse square law. So for 20feet (6.1m) the volume at the listning position is +/- 15dB down compared at 1m. You also wants headroom as driving speakers to the limits causes heavy distortion. 15dB headroom is kind of the minimum headroom needed for undistored peaks and tansients, to be real safe count 20dB. This means that your speakers should be able to play 35dB louder than the perceived max volume at the listening position. Here the wanted max volume is 80dB, so the need of +115dB capable speakers. No dome tweeter or small woofer can do that full spectrum, only compression drivers and larger (+12") woofers can. Dome tweeters may work up to a few meters without going into distortion. What also doesn't help is that the space is high and much wider than deep, which asks even for more power, espeically on the woofers where the directivity is much less controlled (and more omni in the lowest register).

 

[Matt_Holland]

Go line array. These can fill a very big room. 2m pure array and 4x 10" bass for each column.

 

[ZolaIII]

It won't be -15 dB to 6m distance, perhaps 12 it's not free field.
Now seriously small dime tweeters really can't meet the demand, berilium ones are still expensive, you won't get bigger horn loaded in HiFi home this day's of the shelf. That's why Revel Performa3 F208's it won't or at least will less compress in audible range (as it's Alu super tweater really). They will (highly passed) meet standard (wite focused noise) calibration point at 6 m and if passed at 120 Hz they will do it well (low THD and enough dynamic headroom). Regarding Quality low THD and groop delay (under 7 ms) reaching 20~25 Hz on their own I showed example of overall good 15" (18" cone equivalent) subwoofer driver and explanation.
KH310 is by size a big monitor and a good one as I like close buffle one's certainly enough even to 3m distance in a studio or average room (5m length) of course high cut properly with sub's (KH750 more than qualify with room help for two of them to reach 0 dB at 25 Hz).
With 9.7m length and it's fundamental at 17.6 Hz he really can have cathedral alike experience there, still as he is against even relatively mild accustic cover screen (curtains) the desired low SPL will be limited with space spirits (RT decay) and ambient noise.

If speakers can't satisfactory meet reference calibration point you really shouldn't use them in that space and that's main reference to setting program desired SPL level (with additional help of meter or to what you can ensure EBU R128 is applied properly). It's also reference for psy how we hear compensation (ELC). So that's why you do need a damn thing to pass it preferably flying hi (stressed out with plenty of dynamic headroom).
You need it like that in capacity of 20+ dB to where sever real peeks might accure. Low bass reinforcement (or bass reinforcement depending on gerne of music low 30 to 60 Hz range) and main bass bit/ritam section (110~180 Hz), all other peeks you may encounter in the rest of the spectrum will be laughable compared to those talking about all recorded music. There certainly won't be any in 17~20 KHz range and after all you want it to - 7 in room decay there to start with.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Go line array. These can fill a very big room. 2m pure array and 4x 10" bass for each column.

100%

I am not familiar with these particular speakers and they may be too strong of a visual statement for the room, but looking at the room, it appears that the listening position will be some 20+ feet away. I am not that concerned with max SPL capabilities, but rather room interaction. Most line source/line array type speakers will have less interaction with the room than your typical point source speaker. When listening that far away in a room the room will take over if you don't use speakers that limit this interaction or use massive amounts of room treatment.

Another benefit of going with the line source/line array type speaker is that due to the reduced fall off in SPL over distance, this type of speaker will give a more even SPL as you get near the speakers.

 

[Hear Here]

What is all this "monitors are only for nearfield' stuff. What's the science behind that?

Ask the people who make this speaker -

KH 310 A - Three Way Nearfield Monitor

High-resolution tri-amplified near-field monitor, optimized for midrange and a dry bass sound.

www.neumann.com

Nearfield monitors are designed for listening at close quarters, eg as computer speakers or in outside broadcast vans, etc Not suitable in large rooms or where the listeners is not in the nearfield. The OP wouldn't be well-served by a nearfield monitor. In his position, with his lovely large room, he should be looking a decent hi-fi speakers, not stuff like the Neumann speaker.

Perhaps (if his other half doesn't like speakers in the room) he should consider headphones! Maybe we've cracked it!

 

[AndyZ]

I have KEF R11's and would definitely recommend them. I would spend less on the DAC and buy 2 amplifiers for bi-amping. A friend has LS60's in a large room and they sound under powered for the room.

 

[Flaesh]

Go line array. These can fill a very big room. 2m pure array and 4x 10" bass for each column.

How much does such a kit cost?
76 kg is the weight of two modules?
Are there any measurements?

Found it. A bit pricey, $43k. System Weight: 167 pounds (four modules + stand bases)

 

[Matt_Holland]

How much does such a kit cost?
76 kg is the weight of two modules?
Are there any measurements?

Found it. A bit pricey, $43k. System Weight: 167 pounds (four modules + stand bases)

UK list price is circa £30k + VAT
Price includes the 4-ch DSP amplifier and cables. Yes it’s punchy, but it’s a B2B product with the usual margins built into the end-user price. 76Kg is the combined weight of all four 1m long modules. The steel bases are about 8Kg I think.

The equivalent K-array Pinnacle system, KR202 sacrifices aesthetics but is around half the price. Two 18” subs are even more effective in large spaces than the 4x10” of the Dolomite system in my experience.

 

[Goran-P]

So, I am just crawling out of a jbl cbt 70j-1 rabbit hole … on the surface these speakers + the bass extensions + 2-4 subs + some dsp seems like it might work for my room. However, I am concerned that everywhere I went, I read about how these were ‘great surrounds” or ‘great church speakers’, but nothing about how they were ‘great reference stereo speakers in a 2.2 set up’. So that makes me question if I should be thinking they could work in that scenario for me? I seems to be consensus that the kh 310 monitors, or any such ‘bookshelves’ sized speakers ain’t gonna cut it. I really need ‘large’-ish towers of something like these cbts. What are the views around CBT’s (+subs) vs something like the kef r11 metas, or the mofi 888, revel 208, or paradigm founder 100f’s?

 

[Ellebob]

Bookshelves work if you use multiples and give up trying to create stereo imaging and just want good sound everywhere. CBTs are a good choice and we use them at work but haven't in residential applications. I don't think you will find many reviews for home applications but you are on the edge with your room size and listening distance. The only reason regular home towers would even work in your space is your volume requirements are not very loud. I wouldn't rule them out.

We carry Kef and Paradigm at work and there are tradeoffs between them. Kef more accurate, Paradigm wider soundstage and plays louder. Haven't heard the Mofi but have heard the Revel a while ago and not enough experience to really give an opinion.