Help me pick speakers for my big room!

[Goran-P]

What a great project.

I would start by reading reviews of each of your alternatives on ASR, Erin's Audio Corner, or looking them up in Spinorama.org. Then I would look at your room and see if you can have bookshelves to the side and back of the room and your speakers in front of a hard wall. This mimics the live-end (speaker side) dead-end (everything else design philosophy of classic concert halls and Tom Hidley rooms. Then I would look at carpets with jute, not foam, padding. Area rugs are fine. It is also possible to hide acoustic conditioning panels behind tapestries. Is there a video screen or projector involved? At your investment and the room, it would be a good idea to EQ the room, and that may be in the DAC or the AVR for video.

You did not ask, but is there a way to draw your wife more into your hobby? What seating works for her? Would she invite her friends to listen? There have been many women recording engineers and Sylvia Massy has videos of her studio and talks about recording. There are many movies with female musicians and conductors, you can get subscriptions to opera telecasts, and there may be movies / streams of performers she is interested in.

Report back on your solution. Of course the more books, library ladders are a feature, the more sound conditioning on the walls.

No video of any kind in that room.

Can easily put sound conditioners at back of bookshelves that have books on them, and also open ones, as long as not too thick, and can match wall color.

Wifey loves music … while she works or does things, but NOT sitting around just listening / enjoying. ADHD.

I got my initial list by triangulating reviews, size, cost. Most of those reviews were asr / erin’s. First time owning large speakers, hence the plead for advice.

Location of tower speakers ( either side of vertical beams by large window), and couch position are non-negotiable. I could easily move a chair / ottoman closer for listening sessions, but ideally would like to be on the couch. Have more flexibility with sub(s0 and medium bookshelves. Ideally subs are forward firing and would live in bookshelves, not on ground.

 

[Goran-P]

Both the room's architecture and the fact that you have a lot of books in the room will both potentially help you get a good sound in this space. That said, a large amount of glass and exposed hardwood floors will be potentially problematic. More carpeting and drapes would be beneficial.

As for speaker choices, do you plan on sitting in one spot and creating the equilateral triangle needed for proper stereo imaging, or do you want to fill the space with great sound? If you want music throughout the space I would work on a distributed audio plan. If you will be in a single location then bringing in the speakers to shrink the triangle to a more manageable size would be helpful.

It really isn't possible to give you good advice without knowing how you plan on using the space and what your goals and expectations are.

Good questions! I think mainly sitting in one place w/ triangle 65-75 db. Full room sound when we have parties, but doesn’t need to be perfect or too loud. 55-65 db

 

[ZolaIII]

No video of any kind in that room.

Can easily put sound conditioners at back of bookshelves that have books on them, and also open ones, as long as not too thick, and can match wall color.

Wifey loves music … while she works or does things, but NOT sitting around just listening / enjoying. ADHD.

I got my initial list by triangulating reviews, size, cost. Most of those reviews were asr / erin’s. First time owning large speakers, hence the plead for advice.

Location of tower speakers ( either side of vertical beams by large window), and couch position are non-negotiable. I could easily move a chair / ottoman closer for listening sessions, but ideally would like to be on the couch. Have more flexibility with sub(s0 and medium bookshelves. Ideally subs are forward firing and would live in bookshelves, not on ground.

Gdje si ti i kako bi okrenuo zvučnike?
Where are you and how would you orient speakers? Arcs are a good thing to stick sub's on them. Not exactly a library is it? Glass surfaces will be a problem. Will tolerate small window on top as it's a so nice tuch. I don't mean anything too obstructive a nice rug in the middle and accustic curtains which you still can slide aside and admire view and leave lighting as it is, just not when critically listening to music. You can both easy the burden and extent the coverage angle using super tweeters but it does complicate setup a bit. I like beemers. What's exact length of the room again and metric please. Son you can make cathedral out of that place with all bells and whistles, now show me the books.

 

[Goran-P]

Good questions! I think mainly sitting in one place w/ triangle 65-75 db. Full room sound when we have parties, but doesn’t need to be perfect or too loud. 55-65 db

No drapes possible (WAF). Carpet in large open floor on left is very likely.

 

[Goran-P]

Gdje si ti i kako bi okrenuo zvučnike?
Where are you and how would you orient speakers? Arcs are a good thing to stick sub's on them. Not exactly a library is it? Glass surfaces will be a problem. Will tolerate small window on top as it's a so nice tuch. I don't mean anything too obstructive a nice rug in the middle and accustic curtains which you still can slide aside and admire view and leave lighting as it is, just not when critically listening to music. You can both easy the burden and extent the coverage angle using super tweeters but it does complicate setup a bit. I like beemers. What's exact length of the room again and metric please. Son you can make cathedral out of that place with all bells and whistles, now show me the books.

Dobar dan!
I am on east coast, USA. If you look at my earlier posts, all that info is there. Hoping to make it “Cathedral of (not too loud) Sound”

 

[Goran-P]

Good questions! I think mainly sitting in one place w/ triangle 65-75 db. Full room sound when we have parties, but doesn’t need to be perfect or too loud. 55-65 db

I like the ‘idea’ of something like bmr towers (or HT’s / or ascend elx) which have a wide directivity.. ‘idea’ would be to toe them in ( maybe even 10 degrees crossed) for critical listening, and toe them out for parties. Double duty !?. Is this a decent ‘idea’ or would wide directivity mean no high end throw power for across the room. Again, I could move chair 6-8 feet closer for sessions, then return to original spot (say that in case wifey is reading this).

 

[Sokel]

What's the actual use of this room?
Residential or commercial?

If video is baned and only low level music is allowed what's left of art if it's this kind of room?
Paintings and reading?

Also, the mix of decorative elements does not show any particular strict style, and the visuals would not suffer at all with couple of nice looking speakers (or maybe not very nice cause they will dwarf the [deliberate?] unassuming furniture) .

Not mean to get personal, I just try to get the (speaker only) restrictions while the rest of the room seems to can handle just about anything without care.

 

[ZolaIII]

Dobar dan!
I am on east coast, USA. If you look at my earlier posts, all that info is there. Hoping to make it “Cathedral of (not too loud) Sound”

That's a little more tricky. You need perfect implemented ELC to get to 60 dB which is normal talk to still get all 9 octaves. You won't be able to go under that and keep all as it will start to deep into ambient noise. So decay and ambient noise are your main lower limit. Quite frankly wouldn't start a conversation if I thought I couldn't enline it to standard white noise calibration point at 6m which I also nead as 0 point for ELC.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Good questions! I think mainly sitting in one place w/ triangle 65-75 db. Full room sound when we have parties, but doesn’t need to be perfect or too loud. 55-65 db

A lot of posts on this thread have focused on SPL. I would think speaker placement, listening position, room interaction, and lifestyle are more important.

Regarding a 55-65dB SPL during parties for example, to achieve this and not have unpleasantly loud areas and virtually inaudible areas, concealing or integrating many well placed smaller speakers will be helpful so that you can have a balanced background listening experience.

 

[mcdn]

Ok, DIY is off the table (for lots of reasons - realistically, I already have a full dancecard of projects, and i couldn’t get to this for 1 yr+).

OK, well then you are probably buying some
SVS subs. 2 x Sb2000pro should do it. I say that because I have a preference for sealed subs.

 

[mcdn]

And for party level background music you will need a “spare pair” or just the Sonos 5 you already have to even out the volume.

 

[Goran-P]

So my latest thought is 2 nueumann kh 310’s, plus 2 12” subs (or x2 10” like neumann kh750s), all placed in bookshelves, with the fronts of the speakers proud of the surrounding books by 1 or 2 inches. Maybe some isolation / dampening in those bookshelves. The whole system would look like this: rivo+ streamer -> minidsp shd studio w/ dirac live -> a) a good r2r dac (pontus 15?) -> kh 310s and shd -> b) decent a/d dac (topping d 50?) -> subs, run as r / l or dual mono. Maybe position the subs under the 310s? Totally WAF compliant, and I think enough spl for the space and my listening volumes, with the dirac allowing control over crossovers, delays, peq, etc so I can really dial in the space. Also price is right, buying mostly used. Thoughts?

 

[Flaesh]

So be it. You'll have a starting point. And maybe even an endgame.

I enjoy giving helpful tips, information, and just inspiring people to do good things in audio.
Three days ago on a local forum I posted this link https://audioxpress.com/article/you-can-diy-perry-marshall-the-live-edge-dipoles

, and today one comrade has already assembled this:

15"+1.4"WG
This was done in three days! There may still be some DSP adjustment. We'll see.

 

[Matt_Holland]

23' x 32' x 23' high is a big room. Go with as much cone area in the bass drivers as possible. I'd rule out anything with less than 8" bass drivers.

 

[ZolaIII]

KH310 is near field studio monitor and it will work as R2R DAC. Only Dirac which will work with two separate chenel subs (full multi subs with substantial price increase on top end Japan made Denon AVR) is not one you can get with MiniDSP (live). As much as I like 10" siled sub's even for average sized room two are barely enough and with room reinforcement (for such) get to 25 Hz 0 dB (in your they won't). Might be Revel Performa3 F208 are very good choice (especially if you catch them with healthy discount as they are discontinued) for aluminum wave guided tweter and wide even dispersion they keep all the way up. They aren't demanding regarding back or side wall refractions (won't pick up much) they pick from floor and sealing (in your case won't definitely be picking from there tho you still need a rug for the floor). Regarding sub's 2x15" or 4x12". F208 will be happy cut at 55 Hz (or more), 120 is for ELC integration sake as ELC bass correction knee is at 105 Hz.
Edit :With room fundamental cleaver used as reinforcement on 17.6 Hz and two 15" with low 20's FS or uper 10's you can get low groop delay cutting them off at 25~30 Hz while together they will push 5 Hz lower (+3 or 0 where it whose - 3 dB) and SPL won't be a problem to 17 Hz 0 dB or more if you wish (can even go for ISO 226 2023 then use it as plus).

 

[Goran-P]

Thank you, ZolaIII, that’s some solid info. If WAF approves size and looks, the f208’s are definitely high on my list. And I hear you on sub size… I started at wanting no subs, and am now on 2x 10” or 12” woofers … I’m going to need to digest 4X12” or 2x15”

 

[ZolaIII]

Thank you, ZolaIII, that’s some solid info. If WAF approves size and looks, the f208’s are definitely high on my list. And I hear you on sub size… I started at wanting no subs, and am now on 2x 10” or 12” woofers … I’m going to need to digest 4X12” or 2x15”

Look it's all about usng compromises in your favor. I would for pairing (color matching) sake get black F208's as there are planty of shell black sub's (SVS has high glass version trough complete lineup tho you still pay additional for the finish). Feel free to examine online driver databases in order to understand what I talked about regarding sub's. That's drivers alone to close bufle box of recommend size (all database measurements/simulations are).
For example:
https://loudspeakerdatabase.com/KICKER/45L7R154
Scroll down to phase/impedance graph and look where they meet.
Up to 10" groop delay and time domain will be superb but you can have them on rather good level and with big one's by simply not letting them do what they can't (FS being that point or better say little bit above it with simple sharp decay low self digital PEQ filter) so excursion stays much more linear and they can get higher regarding SPL (keeping more linear response).

 

[Goran-P]

ZolaIII, When I get close to a decision on subs, I may PM you to unpack what you said here, but in the meantime, I will go to that website and do some learning. That’s the best part about this forum for me, I love the learning and the sharing from members of ASR.

 

[hch]

So my latest thought is 2 nueumann kh 310’s, plus 2 12” subs (or x2 10” like neumann kh750s), all placed in bookshelves, with the fronts of the speakers proud of the surrounding books by 1 or 2 inches. Maybe some isolation / dampening in those bookshelves. The whole system would look like this: rivo+ streamer -> minidsp shd studio w/ dirac live -> a) a good r2r dac (pontus 15?) -> kh 310s and shd -> b) decent a/d dac (topping d 50?) -> subs, run as r / l or dual mono. Maybe position the subs under the 310s? Totally WAF compliant, and I think enough spl for the space and my listening volumes, with the dirac allowing control over crossovers, delays, peq, etc so I can really dial in the space. Also price is right, buying mostly used. Thoughts?

The KH310's are great speakers, but they are designed for near to midfield use. Anything over about 10ft and I would look at a different type of speaker.

 

[Waxx]

Again you can't use nearfield speakers in that space, it won't work. Would the JBL 708P (also reviewed here) fit your styling? This is about the smallest i would recommend. Not a Neumann monitor, they are not made for such a big space and a far seating setup.