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Help me pick speakers for my big room!
- Thread starter Goran-P
- Start date
I've been reading about this project almost from the very beginning. A line array is something I'd love to listen to at home. But I'm hesitant to actually build one.
While we're discussing speakers with a pair of 15-inch drivers and a 30-inch waveguide, OP is choosing between Audio First Cadentia 3 and Wharfedale Super Linton))
It would be better if we knew more about the room. I installed 15"+WG into the wall a long time ago.
A few years ago, IB 21" subwoofers were installed in a friend's attic. These solutions save a lot of space compared to hudge boxes))
Waxx
Major Contributor
Both will be not enough to get what he wants, but they will only lack a bit, not a lot. If he sits 6ft (2m) closer they will meet his expectations probally as long as his amp can deliver the power (+250w) needed.
The DIY of them,Wesayso was active for a while here on ASR:
Murphy Corner Line Array
I crossed out the unnecessary word. Yes I could and I did https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/double-bass-array-low-q-subs-quasi-plain-wave-radiation.24396/ Ppataky's room isn't ideal for DBA: Agreed that that room would not work with DBA, but disagree on the crossing...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Around 50 Peerless TC9FD18-08, which Wesayso used in his line speakers. Bulk purchase discount around $1000 BUT then building the boxes, milling holes for all the TC9s and getting it nice and well done that takes time.
...OP is choosing between Audio First Cadentia 3 and Wharfedale Super Linton))
As you, me and others point out:
Good speakers but too small for TS. Or rather too small for TS really large room.
Not surprised with answers ranging from 'You've got no chance mate' to 'Just go in the garage and knock up some giant line arrays' and 'Spend forty large on some ATCs'.
Actually, thinking more about it these would do great and fit in the budget (assuming no subs or other DSP spending, which I would not recommend per my previous post). Its awesome and loud speaker for "fair" price, if anything like that exists in the Perlisten world. But they do not cut corners and deliver so price reflects that.
www.perlistenaudio.com
R5m monitor speaker
The R-Series monitor is a culmination of S-Series patented technology with materials developed from the ground up in every part of the design.
www.perlistenaudio.com
Waxx
Major Contributor
Some answers were just plain stupid, that is certainly true but also some vailid options and considereations were made. You can't race a GT race with a 2L 4 cilinder car, so you got to be honest... A small box with a dome tweeter won't fill that space like he wish...
RobL
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lol, these sort of threads here go ridiculous in a few posts
Small no, but it isn't the Albert Hall. It's two of my room put together and same listening distance. Any large-ish 3 way 90dB sensitive speakers and 100 watts (maybe 200 to be sure) amp would cut it. He did say he was only wanting reasonable levels at the listening position.
Okay, it was a bit extreme of me to bring up line speakers.
If it's not possible to place the speakers further apart. Is it possible to move the sofa further away from the back wall? Perhaps attach wheels to it...
a bit extreme of me to bring up line speakers - Straight (not curved) arrays can be integrated between bookshelves in an original and elegant way...
a bit extreme of me to bring up line speakers - Straight (not curved) arrays can be integrated between bookshelves in an original and elegant way...
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Sokel
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It would be reasonable to argue experience with bigger rooms (like mine, let alone OP's with double volume because of double height) if they contradicted the theory.
But it does not.
Both tend to point out at the same directions. We usually use distance but the real thing is volume.
Remember the REW sim option if the room is sealed or not? Have you played with it with a big-ish room?
What it doesn't make sense in OP's set up is dimensions and LP.
No matter how I draw it, either at the long or at the sort distance it does not add up unless speakers are at the short wall of the long distance and MLP is at the opposite wall of it.
In that case no suggestion is valid, there's no way to get decent sound out of it. Direct radiation will be a tiny portion of what will be arrived at the MLP, and that at GREATLY reduced levels.I wouldn't spend a dime in such positioning.
I would instead mount or hung some (any speaker) close and above the ceiling of the MLP , some subs near by and be done with it, after the nightmare of the proper integration.
But it does not.
Both tend to point out at the same directions. We usually use distance but the real thing is volume.
Remember the REW sim option if the room is sealed or not? Have you played with it with a big-ish room?
What it doesn't make sense in OP's set up is dimensions and LP.
No matter how I draw it, either at the long or at the sort distance it does not add up unless speakers are at the short wall of the long distance and MLP is at the opposite wall of it.
In that case no suggestion is valid, there's no way to get decent sound out of it. Direct radiation will be a tiny portion of what will be arrived at the MLP, and that at GREATLY reduced levels.I wouldn't spend a dime in such positioning.
I would instead mount or hung some (any speaker) close and above the ceiling of the MLP , some subs near by and be done with it, after the nightmare of the proper integration.
- Thread Starter
- #76
Wow, I'm impressed with the breadth and depth of the responses! Thank you all (even the guy with the $40,000+ piece of speaker advice ... Yeah, that's not happening. That has exactly zero chance at WAF - and that would be even if they were invisible 
). I KNOW this is a big lift, and as i said: that is my dilemma and the compromise I need to make to keep marital harmony. Or else I will just have to live with the sono(s) and / or a few bookshelf speakers scattered around (Hmm, here's an idea: how about 4 KH 150's spaced around the room? or 2 Genelec 8351's? Yes would be above budget, but I don't need an amp, then 
)
Here are a few more pieces of data that people have asked for: I tested myself with Decibel X and my normal listening volume is 65-70 db - with maybe some peaks at 75. The most I would go is 70-75 with some 80 peaks. So speakers don't have to put out THAT much volume. And I have included a couple of pictures of my
space: the idea would be to put the speakers either on the inside or outside of the two vertical wooden beams that frame the big window on the left side. I could put them up to 2' away from the wall. The red couch against the wall and under the painting (on the right side) would be the listening area. So tweeter to ear distance = 19-20 feet. As you can see, there are a lot of reflective surfaces, hence the need for DPS / EQ. In terms of volume, I don't know if that makes it easier or harder.
). I KNOW this is a big lift, and as i said: that is my dilemma and the compromise I need to make to keep marital harmony. Or else I will just have to live with the sono(s) and / or a few bookshelf speakers scattered around (Hmm, here's an idea: how about 4 KH 150's spaced around the room? or 2 Genelec 8351's? Yes would be above budget, but I don't need an amp, then )Here are a few more pieces of data that people have asked for: I tested myself with Decibel X and my normal listening volume is 65-70 db - with maybe some peaks at 75. The most I would go is 70-75 with some 80 peaks. So speakers don't have to put out THAT much volume. And I have included a couple of pictures of my
space: the idea would be to put the speakers either on the inside or outside of the two vertical wooden beams that frame the big window on the left side. I could put them up to 2' away from the wall. The red couch against the wall and under the painting (on the right side) would be the listening area. So tweeter to ear distance = 19-20 feet. As you can see, there are a lot of reflective surfaces, hence the need for DPS / EQ. In terms of volume, I don't know if that makes it easier or harder.
Wow - the space looks amazing. With this architecture, you might want to think of some speakers that will also fit in aesthetically. So high SPL and good looking speakers that fit into your environment according to your taste. Looks like you don't need to be strict with a budget, so if couple of dollars more, would be well worth it.
Sokel
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Also, putting them at the long distance as shown makes things better about direct sound, but the speakers and MLP glued to the walls won't help.
Spacial qualities will also suffer from the very long distances of the sides walls (that, I know well
) and the very reflective front wall won't help either.Ideally I would go with JBL CBT 70J that I would paint myself, but another great option would be Genelec 4040A which can be ordered in custom RAL colors, so you could find something that closely matches the color of your wood to be very discreet !
You would need at least one subwoofer too but it's easier to hide somewhere
I would also ask for a L-Acoustics SOKA (or similar) setup, they can do RAL colors and it would fit into the budget I think (with additionnal subs)
You would need at least one subwoofer too but it's easier to hide somewhere
I would also ask for a L-Acoustics SOKA (or similar) setup, they can do RAL colors and it would fit into the budget I think (with additionnal subs)
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Waxx
Major Contributor
certainly in that kind of setup it's best to have directive speakers, so a horn for the tweeter (or a waveguide at least) that restrict the dispertion to the sides to get enough volume to the seats. For that distance a dome tweeter will mostly not make it as none go above 110dB clean, and most will not even get 105dB. To have a clean sound you need 15-20dB headroom to not disturb the transients. You will loose about 15dB for the distance. That's how i come to 110-115dB needed at 1m to get a clean 75-80dB at 6m (20ft). Your wooofer and mid (if you use a 3 way) needs the same kind of power.
Those bookshelfs that you suggest won't make it that far. They can go relative loud in that space but with no headroom (so distorted transients and peaks). If you want monitors for that space you look at way more expensive speakers, that are far out of your budget. A more reasonable choice may be the Genelec S360, that comes close to what you want, but slightly over budget. The 8351B probally won't make it neighter, but is the best option you suggest yourself. Neumann does not make speakers that can do that and certainly not the KH150 that is a more nearfield speaker, these don't get over 100dB as the limiter on the tweeter (build in and not defeatable) kicks in.
But you actually want something like the Genelec 8380A or the JBL 4367 (both way over budget). These are just examples, others may fit also in. Meyer Bleu Horns would also be great, but also way over budget (even more than the other two). I don't know a speaker within your budget and size restrains that can do what you want. Is there no way to put the speakers closer to the sofa? That gives you a lot more options within your restraints.
Those bookshelfs that you suggest won't make it that far. They can go relative loud in that space but with no headroom (so distorted transients and peaks). If you want monitors for that space you look at way more expensive speakers, that are far out of your budget. A more reasonable choice may be the Genelec S360, that comes close to what you want, but slightly over budget. The 8351B probally won't make it neighter, but is the best option you suggest yourself. Neumann does not make speakers that can do that and certainly not the KH150 that is a more nearfield speaker, these don't get over 100dB as the limiter on the tweeter (build in and not defeatable) kicks in.
But you actually want something like the Genelec 8380A or the JBL 4367 (both way over budget). These are just examples, others may fit also in. Meyer Bleu Horns would also be great, but also way over budget (even more than the other two). I don't know a speaker within your budget and size restrains that can do what you want. Is there no way to put the speakers closer to the sofa? That gives you a lot more options within your restraints.
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