104dB sensitive? Oh my. How do you manage hiss on something like that?
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Help me pick speakers for my big room!
- Thread starter Goran-P
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terryforsythe
Major Contributor
Let's put some science behind this. Here is the compression data from Erin's review:
With the speakers placed against the wall, to acheive 80dB with two speakers at 20' from the listening position, each speaker will be outputing around 86.7dB @ 1m considering room gain, boundary reinforcement and speaker separation. We can see in Erin's chart that the LS60 is down about 1dB at 50Hz and 2.5dB at 40Hz. This may or may not be acceptable to the OP. If not, a subwoofer can be added to address the bass rolloff issue.
One issue the subwoofer will not address is dynamics above 3kHz. Most music these days (and I suspect audio for movies, etc.) is compressed, so I don't think it is a significant issue. However, if the OP plans on listening to a fair amount of uncompressed music (e.g., classical music recordings, older recordings, etc.), it will be an issue. How audible it will be I don't know. I have a pair of LS60s, but in a smaller room, and I have not experienced any noticable issues, even when listening to uncompressed music.
For this space, the OP might consider some of the horn + big woofer speakers that are more common in the home theater world. JTR is the brand I know of, but there are others. These are usually pretty efficient also. The example below is from the JTR website. They make models with 10 and 15 inch woofers also. A 10-inch, 2-way model is $2500 each, while the 3-way jumps to $3500 each.
As a Revel Performa3 F208 owner, speakers like this are the only ones I'd consider as an upgrade. The WAF is low, however....
"The Noesis 212RT is a 3-way floor standing loudspeaker equipped with two 12” woofers in a vented enclosure, combined with an ultra-high-end coaxial compression driver fitted on a large, wooden horn with a 60 x 60 coverage pattern.
frequency +/- 3db
35hz-24khz
Sensitivity*
101db (2.0 volts, free air)
Usable Output**
134db (calculated peak 137 – 3db compression)
Recommended Amplification
up to 2000 watts RMS (program)
Impedance
4 ohm
As a Revel Performa3 F208 owner, speakers like this are the only ones I'd consider as an upgrade. The WAF is low, however....
"The Noesis 212RT is a 3-way floor standing loudspeaker equipped with two 12” woofers in a vented enclosure, combined with an ultra-high-end coaxial compression driver fitted on a large, wooden horn with a 60 x 60 coverage pattern.
frequency +/- 3db
35hz-24khz
Sensitivity*
101db (2.0 volts, free air)
Usable Output**
134db (calculated peak 137 – 3db compression)
Recommended Amplification
up to 2000 watts RMS (program)
Impedance
4 ohm
MSRP $4299 EACH"
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My Tune Audio Anima horns are 109dB/watt, I am currently using a Job INTegrated DAC/amp rated at over 100watts and I just tried them with volume set at normal listening level and CD transport stopped and I don't hear any hiss at all unless I put my ear inside the mid horn where there is a slight "rustle" type sound, nothing from the treble horn, though I can't get my ear quite as close.
I also sometimes use them with a classic 40W/channel class AB valve amplifier and have never noticed any hiss at all.
4722n is cheaper.
The compression driver can potentially be replaced with a better one in the future. But WAF is actually even smaller than one might think from the photos.
...and oh so pretty!
terryforsythe
Major Contributor
High on the spousal approval list for sure.
Didn't you read it to the end?))
Even the plastic from which the WG is made can be frightening.
Defi
Active Member
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It might actually be a perfect null--physically impossible to boost.
Waxx
Major Contributor
It's true that the 4722 is cheaper and maybe even better in such a space, but I was also considering WAF, and that speaker it's WAF is very low in most cases. I would probally also choose that one, but my girlfriend, who owns a pair of 4367 in her house would not approve it. But at the end i'm more a diy guy on speakers and have a much smaller room so...
Sokel
Grand Contributor
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About the bold.
To achieve 80dB SPL (let's say C weighted) at what?
Average, max or peaks?
Cause if the 80dB SPL (C) is all you have, average should be at the 60's, at most.
LS60 is already -3dB at the visible chart for 96dB at its edges and it seems that has no output at all for 102dB except the 2 tiny bumps at 1kHz and 2kHz.
Totally unreal for 20 feet and most importantly 450 m³ of room volume and not only for reference level.
For room of your size you need BIG speakers. This will not be cheap. I would say that budget should be $25K-30K for speakers alone. Look at something with at least 15" woofers and rated for 120dB sound pressure. Even that may not be sufficient and additional subs (18"-24") will be required. Anything less will sound small, unless you decide to limit you listening space to one corner of that room.
From speakers which I know personally, I would start with ATC SCM150 ($46000).
Wow, up to $46K speakers already. I'll take a road less travelled. Considering the room size and your esthetic limitations and basically background listening level I wouldn't spend the amount you're considering. Get a couple of Sonos and place them closer to your couch. I don't see the point of spending $15K for background listening levels. I hope this doesn't come across as critical in any way it's simply my two cents for a reasonable outcome taking in all your restrictions.
Oops, I missed that page!
Mitch Barnett has been using 4722 for a long time and, as far as I know, has no intention of changing.
Next step up from ATC will be JBL DD67000 for $67000. Room size dictates what kind of speakers are needed.
Waxx
Major Contributor
You don't need that kind of money, a JBL 4722 will do it as good, it just won't look that fancy or be hyped that much and kost 2800€ per speaker (x2 for stereo) here in Europe. And if you need deep bass, add the sub of their cinema line that fits your need, the most expenive is like 3K. Money does not equal quality in speakers, so ...
I think 4722 are cool speakers,
but it's up to TS to decide if they fit into the home, WAF and all that.In any case, large speakers, we also have large ones in the form of long but narrow; line array speakers:
They can also be an alternative to TS, especially because of the large listening distance, which @Mr. Widget talked about in the thread.
Large speakers, if you want them to fit in style in a combined listening, living room, then DIY is something to consider. Build a TV bench with built-in speakers for example to blend in with the rest of the furniture.Line array speakers, there it is probably mostly DIY that is the solution for such.
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